5 ms·

Why Introverts Can Make The Best Leaders

87 points by nathanh 17y ago

treyp 17y ago
Even as an introvert, I think that extroverts can sometimes come to the same well-planned decisions through more of a conversational process, deliberating out loud and with the help of others. But the title and point of the article are simply why introverts can make good leaders, not necessarily why extroverts aren't just as good.
- j_baker 17y ago
  +1 - Extroverts have many strengths that introverts don't have and vice versa.
  - derefr 17y ago
    Justify that. All treyp said was that extroverts could make up for their weaknesses, not that they had any given strengths. It's not that I agree or disagree with you—but the "+1" implies that you think this is what treyp meant, when he was establishing a much weaker argument.
    - j_baker 17y ago
      Whatever treyp said, my point is that introverts have strengths that extroverts don't have and vice versa. Thus to say one group is inherently better at managing than another is wrong. If I read his comment wrong, then so be it. EDIT: after reading my initial comment, I realized that it might have sounded a bit "pro-extrovert" which wasn't my intent. I've edited it to be a bit more clear.
      - treyp 17y ago
        Yeah, so the article is very pro-introvert. I just wanted to point out that I don't think it's the case that introverts are better at leadership than extroverts. The article isn't claiming this, but I have a feeling that the HN audience might up-vote this because that's how they interpret it. I was just trying to give a friendly reminder that there are different qualities that make people good leaders. Both of them can excel. But the article still serves its purpose. In the business world, there's a tendency to assume you must be extroverted to be a great leader. There's an assumption that introverts should be doing other things like engineering, that introverts don't have the "people skills" necessary to be great leaders. The article makes a good case that this just isn't so.
j_baker 17y ago
"They also use their calm, quiet demeanors to be heard amid all the organizational noise and chatter. (One thoughtful, reasoned comment in a meeting can move a group forward by leaps and bounds.)" I've noticed that this is my greatest strength as an introvert. I tend to not say that much in meetings, but when I do, people listen. It's gotten to the point where I rarely have to talk over people.
Goladus 17y ago
To the extent that introvert and extrovert, as unfalsifiable subjective descriptions, really mean anything anyway, it has nothing to do with listening to people speak. Listening is simply a conversational skill and has nothing to do with meyers-briggs personality type. Some people are naturally better at listening and others aren't. Some people practice and gain skill others do not.
- jeremyw 17y ago
  I would put the purported plus of introverts "listening to people speak" a bit differently. To generalize, extroverts talk to work through their own thinking. So some/much of what they say is that process in public. As a young introvert, I often got annoyed at their listening dead zones, until I realized they were still working through their own patterns as they integrated what others had to say. In the world of extroverts, introverts do this behind the scenes.
  - Goladus 17y ago
    I don't think the way a person works through their thoughts is closely related to listening. There are a number of circumstances under which people fail to listen. Two common ones are: 1. One's own speech fills in the entire time leaving no one else a chance to talk. 2. One's listening time is wasted mentally preparing what you are going to say and anticipating an opportunity to say it. So others talk, but you aren't paying attention. (1) would be a problem associated with "extraverts" while (2) would be a problem associated with "introverts." But in fact, if you really got someone to observe your behavior you might be surprised to find how often you are guilty of the first. The introvert/extravert labels are somewhat dangerous models to apply to your own behavior.
    - adamc 17y ago
      There is at least one more common pattern, which I would call "half-listening" -- thinking about something else entirely. I don't really know what studies there are on this, but the belief that introverts are better listeners is widespread (just google on "introverts better listeners" -- compare that to "extroverts better listeners").
indiejade 17y ago
Summary: Introverts make great problem-solvers because they listen more than they talk. When introverts are able to vocalize or communicate their efficient problem-solving techniques, they become leaders. A frequent problem that many introverts have is that all the talkers/extroverts in the room never give them a chance to properly vocalize their thoughts. The Internet changed the dynamics a little bit, because introverts are now able to "speak" without waiting for humdrum lulls in conversation. ... the most powerful person in the room is often the most quiet Another problem is that extroverts sometimes take credit for the "thoughts" of introverts (those that have been written before spoken).
mitko 17y ago
Is there a good test for being introvert or extrovert? I have always imagined that an extrovert just has a better ability and finds it easier to express his/her emotions. However, the Wikipedia definition sounds more like a description of egoist/altruist: Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life". Extraversion is "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self"
- jasonfried 17y ago
  I've found this piece describes introverts well. Definitely resonated with me (a definite introvert): http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch
  - alanthonyc 17y ago
    Awesome article. "[introverts]...tend to think before talking, whereas extroverts tend to think by talking, which is why their meetings never last less than six hours." I can definitely be pretty active at parties and stuff, but this is something that I've learned to do as I realized how being my "natural" self turns people off. I guess you can say that my social stamina is low and I need to rest more than extroverts do.
  - deleted 17y ago
    [deleted]
- j_baker 17y ago
  An egoist is a person who is concerned with how good they are. Whether they're an introvert or extravert would only define where they project that feeling. For instance, an egoist introvert would likely spend all day thinking about how good they are to themselves. An egoist extravert would spend all day telling everyone else how good they are.
- Goladus 17y ago
  Is there a good test? If by "good" you mean "scientific" then the answer is certainly no. There are tests where you answer questions about how you think about various different kinds of real-life scenarios and will assign you to one or the other. The tests use casual and vague definitions and the label is assigned based on entirely subjective self-measurements. "Do you enjoy being the center of attention?" Since everyone shares traits of introverts and extraverts, it's easy to take a test and read the vague description they give you and think "oh yeah that sounds like me."
antirez 17y ago
I don't buy this. At work I used to have tons of problems with people that communicates little. The ability to communicate fast and the ability to use the right words to make clear what you mean is vital. Also instead to do useless work because you can't just tell in five seconds if this is going to be OK sucks. A lot of wasted work. I think that the ability to communicate well is very important IMHO, and it's unrelated to being introverts or extroverts as far as I can tell.
- j_baker 17y ago
  I'm not sure I understand your point. You're saying that an article claiming that introverts have strengths that can make them good leaders is invalid because people need communication skills. But then you claim that that's not really related to introversion/extroversion?
  - antirez 17y ago
    No my claim is that extrovert / introvert matters zero. It's just a matter of communication skills that's very different being intro/extroverts. But, whatever the reason is for some kind of guy to talk too little, it's a huge problem at work.
ct 17y ago
I think introverts are best leaders only in certain leadership roles. Leadership roles that require technical and deep thinking seem to better fit introverts. While leadership roles that are more people facing are better suited for extroverts. Bill Gates's introvertness and leadership of driving the technical direction of Microsoft, while Steve Ballmer's extrovertness of being the sales guy.
- codexon 17y ago
  Bill Gates is "supposedly" an extrovert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTJ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTJ where the e is for extraversion.
  - olliesaunders 17y ago
    I don't believe it. I live with an ENTJ.
bh23ha 17y ago
It has been reported that a full 40% of executives describe themselves as introverts... Doesn't this disprove the claim that introverts are best leaders? What metric of best are we using and where's the hard data?
- j_baker 17y ago
  I wasn't aware that there was a metric of who's a better leader. I suppose we're also going to need more metrics for who's friendlier or has the best idea?
  - bh23ha 17y ago
    Oh well then I guess we'll just have to give up on empiricism.
papersmith 17y ago
What's perfectly whole seems flawed, but you can use it forever. What's perfectly full seems empty, but you can't use it up. True straightness looks crooked. Great skill looks clumsy. Real eloquence seems to stammer. To be comfortable in the cold, keep moving; to be comfortable in the heat, keep still; to be comfortable in the world, stay calm and clear. -- Tao Te Ching
adamc 17y ago
The article mostly just reiterates the strengths of introverts, which you can get from reading about Meyers/Briggs personality types or similar sources. What would have been more interesting would be a comparison of the leadership styles of introverts vs. extroverts: my hunch is that introverts provide deeper strategic leadership, but are not as good at things like bolstering morale. But if anyone has links on this, I'd love to see them. As an introvert who is often frustrated by the strategic thinking of his own organization, I find the subject interesting.
abalashov 17y ago
Much of the narrative of this article seems to be predicated on the implicit suggestion that introverts are about substance, deep thoughts, abstraction, careful consideration, aforethought, judiciousness and balance, and extroverts mostly about superficial banter and infantile thumb-sucking that passes for discussion or decisionmaking. To say the very least that could possibly be said, I think there is zero of the envisaged correlation here.

87 points by nathanh 17y ago

treyp 17y ago

Even as an introvert, I think that extroverts can sometimes come to the same well-planned decisions through more of a conversational process, deliberating out loud and with the help of others. But the title and point of the article are simply why introverts can make good leaders, not necessarily why extroverts aren't just as good.

j_baker 17y ago
+1 - Extroverts have many strengths that introverts don't have and vice versa.
- derefr 17y ago
  Justify that. All treyp said was that extroverts could make up for their weaknesses, not that they had any given strengths. It's not that I agree or disagree with you—but the "+1" implies that you think this is what treyp meant, when he was establishing a much weaker argument.
  - j_baker 17y ago
    Whatever treyp said, my point is that introverts have strengths that extroverts don't have and vice versa. Thus to say one group is inherently better at managing than another is wrong. If I read his comment wrong, then so be it. EDIT: after reading my initial comment, I realized that it might have sounded a bit "pro-extrovert" which wasn't my intent. I've edited it to be a bit more clear.
    - treyp 17y ago
      Yeah, so the article is very pro-introvert. I just wanted to point out that I don't think it's the case that introverts are better at leadership than extroverts. The article isn't claiming this, but I have a feeling that the HN audience might up-vote this because that's how they interpret it. I was just trying to give a friendly reminder that there are different qualities that make people good leaders. Both of them can excel. But the article still serves its purpose. In the business world, there's a tendency to assume you must be extroverted to be a great leader. There's an assumption that introverts should be doing other things like engineering, that introverts don't have the "people skills" necessary to be great leaders. The article makes a good case that this just isn't so.

j_baker 17y ago

"They also use their calm, quiet demeanors to be heard amid all the organizational noise and chatter. (One thoughtful, reasoned comment in a meeting can move a group forward by leaps and bounds.)" I've noticed that this is my greatest strength as an introvert. I tend to not say that much in meetings, but when I do, people listen. It's gotten to the point where I rarely have to talk over people.

Goladus 17y ago

To the extent that introvert and extrovert, as unfalsifiable subjective descriptions, really mean anything anyway, it has nothing to do with listening to people speak. Listening is simply a conversational skill and has nothing to do with meyers-briggs personality type. Some people are naturally better at listening and others aren't. Some people practice and gain skill others do not.

jeremyw 17y ago
I would put the purported plus of introverts "listening to people speak" a bit differently. To generalize, extroverts talk to work through their own thinking. So some/much of what they say is that process in public. As a young introvert, I often got annoyed at their listening dead zones, until I realized they were still working through their own patterns as they integrated what others had to say. In the world of extroverts, introverts do this behind the scenes.
- Goladus 17y ago
  I don't think the way a person works through their thoughts is closely related to listening. There are a number of circumstances under which people fail to listen. Two common ones are: 1. One's own speech fills in the entire time leaving no one else a chance to talk. 2. One's listening time is wasted mentally preparing what you are going to say and anticipating an opportunity to say it. So others talk, but you aren't paying attention. (1) would be a problem associated with "extraverts" while (2) would be a problem associated with "introverts." But in fact, if you really got someone to observe your behavior you might be surprised to find how often you are guilty of the first. The introvert/extravert labels are somewhat dangerous models to apply to your own behavior.
  - adamc 17y ago
    There is at least one more common pattern, which I would call "half-listening" -- thinking about something else entirely. I don't really know what studies there are on this, but the belief that introverts are better listeners is widespread (just google on "introverts better listeners" -- compare that to "extroverts better listeners").

indiejade 17y ago

Summary: Introverts make great problem-solvers because they listen more than they talk. When introverts are able to vocalize or communicate their efficient problem-solving techniques, they become leaders. A frequent problem that many introverts have is that all the talkers/extroverts in the room never give them a chance to properly vocalize their thoughts. The Internet changed the dynamics a little bit, because introverts are now able to "speak" without waiting for humdrum lulls in conversation. ... the most powerful person in the room is often the most quiet Another problem is that extroverts sometimes take credit for the "thoughts" of introverts (those that have been written before spoken).

mitko 17y ago

Is there a good test for being introvert or extrovert? I have always imagined that an extrovert just has a better ability and finds it easier to express his/her emotions. However, the Wikipedia definition sounds more like a description of egoist/altruist: Introversion is "the state of or tendency toward being wholly or predominantly concerned with and interested in one's own mental life". Extraversion is "the act, state, or habit of being predominantly concerned with and obtaining gratification from what is outside the self"

jasonfried 17y ago
I've found this piece describes introverts well. Definitely resonated with me (a definite introvert): http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch
- alanthonyc 17y ago
  Awesome article. "[introverts]...tend to think before talking, whereas extroverts tend to think by talking, which is why their meetings never last less than six hours." I can definitely be pretty active at parties and stuff, but this is something that I've learned to do as I realized how being my "natural" self turns people off. I guess you can say that my social stamina is low and I need to rest more than extroverts do.
- deleted 17y ago
  [deleted]
j_baker 17y ago
An egoist is a person who is concerned with how good they are. Whether they're an introvert or extravert would only define where they project that feeling. For instance, an egoist introvert would likely spend all day thinking about how good they are to themselves. An egoist extravert would spend all day telling everyone else how good they are.
Goladus 17y ago
Is there a good test? If by "good" you mean "scientific" then the answer is certainly no. There are tests where you answer questions about how you think about various different kinds of real-life scenarios and will assign you to one or the other. The tests use casual and vague definitions and the label is assigned based on entirely subjective self-measurements. "Do you enjoy being the center of attention?" Since everyone shares traits of introverts and extraverts, it's easy to take a test and read the vague description they give you and think "oh yeah that sounds like me."

antirez 17y ago

I don't buy this. At work I used to have tons of problems with people that communicates little. The ability to communicate fast and the ability to use the right words to make clear what you mean is vital. Also instead to do useless work because you can't just tell in five seconds if this is going to be OK sucks. A lot of wasted work. I think that the ability to communicate well is very important IMHO, and it's unrelated to being introverts or extroverts as far as I can tell.

j_baker 17y ago
I'm not sure I understand your point. You're saying that an article claiming that introverts have strengths that can make them good leaders is invalid because people need communication skills. But then you claim that that's not really related to introversion/extroversion?
- antirez 17y ago
  No my claim is that extrovert / introvert matters zero. It's just a matter of communication skills that's very different being intro/extroverts. But, whatever the reason is for some kind of guy to talk too little, it's a huge problem at work.

ct 17y ago

I think introverts are best leaders only in certain leadership roles. Leadership roles that require technical and deep thinking seem to better fit introverts. While leadership roles that are more people facing are better suited for extroverts. Bill Gates's introvertness and leadership of driving the technical direction of Microsoft, while Steve Ballmer's extrovertness of being the sales guy.

codexon 17y ago
Bill Gates is "supposedly" an extrovert. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTJ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENTJ where the e is for extraversion.
- olliesaunders 17y ago
  I don't believe it. I live with an ENTJ.

bh23ha 17y ago

It has been reported that a full 40% of executives describe themselves as introverts... Doesn't this disprove the claim that introverts are best leaders? What metric of best are we using and where's the hard data?

j_baker 17y ago
I wasn't aware that there was a metric of who's a better leader. I suppose we're also going to need more metrics for who's friendlier or has the best idea?
- bh23ha 17y ago
  Oh well then I guess we'll just have to give up on empiricism.

papersmith 17y ago

What's perfectly whole seems flawed, but you can use it forever. What's perfectly full seems empty, but you can't use it up. True straightness looks crooked. Great skill looks clumsy. Real eloquence seems to stammer. To be comfortable in the cold, keep moving; to be comfortable in the heat, keep still; to be comfortable in the world, stay calm and clear. -- Tao Te Ching

adamc 17y ago

The article mostly just reiterates the strengths of introverts, which you can get from reading about Meyers/Briggs personality types or similar sources. What would have been more interesting would be a comparison of the leadership styles of introverts vs. extroverts: my hunch is that introverts provide deeper strategic leadership, but are not as good at things like bolstering morale. But if anyone has links on this, I'd love to see them. As an introvert who is often frustrated by the strategic thinking of his own organization, I find the subject interesting.

abalashov 17y ago

Much of the narrative of this article seems to be predicated on the implicit suggestion that introverts are about substance, deep thoughts, abstraction, careful consideration, aforethought, judiciousness and balance, and extroverts mostly about superficial banter and infantile thumb-sucking that passes for discussion or decisionmaking. To say the very least that could possibly be said, I think there is zero of the envisaged correlation here.