5 ms·

But you have to remember. This is one group of people(taxi drivers), not allowing another group of people(Uber drivers) not to earn a living driving cars. Ther

by UK-AL 11y ago

But you have to remember. This is one group of people(taxi drivers), not allowing another group of people(Uber drivers) not to earn a living driving cars. There is no free lunch. If you introduce regulation to protect a group of people, another group of people loses out.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
So the solution is to allow everyone to compete until wages are driven down to 0?
- UK-AL 11y ago
  By the time wages are driven down to that level, people would have left the profession for better jobs paying more. Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    We'll agree to disagree. EDIT (to respond to your EDIT): > Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well. The level of knowledge and critical thinking required to develop (quality) software is a bit greater than that required to drive a vehicle. I'd argue that as additional resources are developed/released to aid people learning to code, along with resources that make writing code remotely with a team more painless, the value of software developers as a whole will drop.
    - UK-AL 11y ago
      Yes. Why should someone be paid quite a high salary, for job that in your words requires a lower education? Shall we mandate all jobs should be paid well? If low skill jobs pay almost as well as high skill/high paying jobs, where's the economic incentive in increasing your skills? In many ways its a trap, because you won't go out of your way to increase your skills. And when people say Taxi driving is actually quite a high skill job. I say you should have no problem fighting off the competition then. "software developers as a whole will drop." And on that day, I'll get an MBA instead proving that the incentives work.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        I didn't say they should be paid quite a high salary. They should be paid at least minimum wage. Regarding your MBA: “A degree has value only if the degree is scarce, and the MBA is completely unscarce,” says Jeffrey Pfeffer, professor of organisational behaviour at Stanford Graduate School of Business. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/2313a2f8-7c81-11e3-b514-00144feabdc0.html http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/2313a2f8-7c81-11e3-b514-00144feabd...
      - UK-AL 11y ago
        Taxi drivers earn a lot more than minimum wage, if your competent. "Regarding your MBA:" Or whatever degree pays.
claudius 11y ago
> There is no free lunch. If you introduce regulation to protect a group of people, another group of people loses out. And the correct way to change that in a modern democracy is to lobby for better laws in parliament and/or found your own party and then win the population’s votes to fix your issue. Wilfully ignoring existing laws implies a fundamental lack of respect for society and democracy.
- asift 11y ago
  Why should people respect a system that doesn't respect them? Disrespect for immoral laws is valuable for the continued evolution of liberal societies.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Labor laws aren't (EDIT: intended to be) immoral.
    - UK-AL 11y ago
      Huge chunk of them have unintended bad effects. French labour laws in general overwhelmingly advantage the older(as in already employed), and established workers and disadvantage younger workers and new entrants.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        Unintended bad effects != immoral.
        asift 11y ago
        It does when those unintended consequences are immoral.
    - asift 11y ago
      A sweeping statement such as this is almost certainly false. Of course, some labor laws are perfectly moral, but some are immoral as well. In general terms, labor laws such as wage prohibitions and occupational licensing tend to give relatively economically advantaged workers artificial advantages over lower skilled workers. In this respect, they serve as upwards redistribution of wealth and opportunity. At the same time, they restrict consumer sovereignty and the ability for people to freely engage in commerce. Of course, there are counter arguments to these as well. My intent here is not to make any overly simplistic sweeping claims, but to point out that there are some thoughtful and powerful lines of reasoning that call into question the morality of many existing labor regulations.
igrekel 11y ago
Uber and Über drivers were already illegal, even before the protests. In part because they not pay social security like everyone else and that is part of how they drive the prices down.

by UK-AL 11y ago

toomuchtodo 11y ago

So the solution is to allow everyone to compete until wages are driven down to 0?

UK-AL 11y ago
By the time wages are driven down to that level, people would have left the profession for better jobs paying more. Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  We'll agree to disagree. EDIT (to respond to your EDIT): > Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well. The level of knowledge and critical thinking required to develop (quality) software is a bit greater than that required to drive a vehicle. I'd argue that as additional resources are developed/released to aid people learning to code, along with resources that make writing code remotely with a team more painless, the value of software developers as a whole will drop.
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    Yes. Why should someone be paid quite a high salary, for job that in your words requires a lower education? Shall we mandate all jobs should be paid well? If low skill jobs pay almost as well as high skill/high paying jobs, where's the economic incentive in increasing your skills? In many ways its a trap, because you won't go out of your way to increase your skills. And when people say Taxi driving is actually quite a high skill job. I say you should have no problem fighting off the competition then. "software developers as a whole will drop." And on that day, I'll get an MBA instead proving that the incentives work.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      I didn't say they should be paid quite a high salary. They should be paid at least minimum wage. Regarding your MBA: “A degree has value only if the degree is scarce, and the MBA is completely unscarce,” says Jeffrey Pfeffer, professor of organisational behaviour at Stanford Graduate School of Business. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/2313a2f8-7c81-11e3-b514-00144feabdc0.html http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/2313a2f8-7c81-11e3-b514-00144feabd...
    - UK-AL 11y ago
      Taxi drivers earn a lot more than minimum wage, if your competent. "Regarding your MBA:" Or whatever degree pays.

claudius 11y ago

> There is no free lunch. If you introduce regulation to protect a group of people, another group of people loses out. And the correct way to change that in a modern democracy is to lobby for better laws in parliament and/or found your own party and then win the population’s votes to fix your issue. Wilfully ignoring existing laws implies a fundamental lack of respect for society and democracy.

asift 11y ago
Why should people respect a system that doesn't respect them? Disrespect for immoral laws is valuable for the continued evolution of liberal societies.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Labor laws aren't (EDIT: intended to be) immoral.
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    Huge chunk of them have unintended bad effects. French labour laws in general overwhelmingly advantage the older(as in already employed), and established workers and disadvantage younger workers and new entrants.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      Unintended bad effects != immoral.
      - asift 11y ago
        It does when those unintended consequences are immoral.
  - asift 11y ago
    A sweeping statement such as this is almost certainly false. Of course, some labor laws are perfectly moral, but some are immoral as well. In general terms, labor laws such as wage prohibitions and occupational licensing tend to give relatively economically advantaged workers artificial advantages over lower skilled workers. In this respect, they serve as upwards redistribution of wealth and opportunity. At the same time, they restrict consumer sovereignty and the ability for people to freely engage in commerce. Of course, there are counter arguments to these as well. My intent here is not to make any overly simplistic sweeping claims, but to point out that there are some thoughtful and powerful lines of reasoning that call into question the morality of many existing labor regulations.

igrekel 11y ago

Uber and Über drivers were already illegal, even before the protests. In part because they not pay social security like everyone else and that is part of how they drive the prices down.