9 ms·

French government orders Uber taxi ban after protests

41 points by itg 11y ago

mikehawkins 11y ago
Thanks for sharing! Interesting thing is that until now, Uber has been paying the drivers' fines for operating illegally while waiting for the court case to be resolved.
- bopf 11y ago
  way to go France. Instead of punishing the guys who riot and light up cars in the streets, you punish an innovative disruptor.
  - stzup7 11y ago
    keep in mind that it only applies to UberPop, not the classic Uber service.
    - dheavy 11y ago
      Though "it only applies for UberPop", please bear in mind that during these riots, all type of transporters, or even just cars that rioters identified with transports cars (any black vans or black sedan cars) were attacked.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    Violating labor and transportation laws to drive demand isn't being a disruptor. Are we so tone deaf in the HackerNews bubble that we don't realize that labor rights aren't a four letter word? I'm not for regulator capture with regards to taxi medallions, but I am supportive of regulations that permit people to have an acceptable quality of life. Or do we need to wait for the next bubble to burst and devs on the street with signs saying "will develop in React for food" to see that? Shall we look down on them as people look down on these protests? (Note: I DO NOT condone property damage or violence)
    - UK-AL 11y ago
      But you have to remember. This is one group of people(taxi drivers), not allowing another group of people(Uber drivers) not to earn a living driving cars. There is no free lunch. If you introduce regulation to protect a group of people, another group of people loses out.
      - toomuchtodo 11y ago
        So the solution is to allow everyone to compete until wages are driven down to 0?
        UK-AL 11y ago
        By the time wages are driven down to that level, people would have left the profession for better jobs paying more. Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well.
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        We'll agree to disagree. EDIT (to respond to your EDIT): > Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well. The level of knowledge and critical thinking required to develop (quality) software is a bit greater than that required to drive a vehicle. I'd argue that as additional resources are developed/released to aid people learning to code, along with resources that make writing code remotely with a team more painless, the value of software developers as a whole will drop.
        UK-AL 11y ago
        Yes. Why should someone be paid quite a high salary, for job that in your words requires a lower education? Shall we mandate all jobs should be paid well? If low skill jobs pay almost as well as high skill/high paying jobs, where's the economic incentive in increasing your skills? In many ways its a trap, because you won't go out of your way to increase your skills. And when people say Taxi driving is actually quite a high skill job. I say you should have no problem fighting off the competition then. "software developers as a whole will drop." And on that day, I'll get an MBA instead proving that the incentives work.
  - bnegreve 11y ago
    The individuals who lit up cars should be prosecuted of course. But there's no room for "punishment", this is a serious debate.
- Russwrites 11y ago
  Really? That's a real mess!
- stephengillie 11y ago
  In some perspectives, it's just a cost of doing business.
CodeSheikh 11y ago
Learn how to use a smartphone and download the app. Problems solved. I am sure they pay a certain % to w/e Frenchy cab companies anyway akin to infamous Yello-cab in NYC.
BurningFrog 11y ago
In France, rioting is the fourth branch of government.
- bgilroy26 11y ago
  I'm American, and all but aren't riots/strikes etc examples of how France's political life enjoys a much higher per-capita rate of material participation than USAns are accustomed to seeing?
  - mcintyre1994 11y ago
    Absolutely serious question - are riots considered part of political life in the same way protests are? If they are politically motivated, what sets at least these riots apart from terrorism, defined in Oxford Dictionaries as "use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims"?
    - fennecfoxen 11y ago
      Some measure of dramatic violence is a routine part of "industrial action" (i.e. strikes) in France, at least when those strikes are considered to be targeting multinationals. In the past, management officials of 3M and Goodyear were kidnapped. Burning tires and the like are common as well (especially at Goodyear). More generally, France is notorious for being suspicious of foreign influences (international Communism, globalization, Islamism -- heck, even Catholicism, though most of them still practice it at least nominally.) Terrorism... I dunno, terrorists in small groups tend to blow up or gun down people unexpectedly, whereas these protestors in large groups don't generally try to kill or to hide.
    - pmalynin 11y ago
      <sarcasm> Terrorism is reserved for perpetrators with Islamic beliefs. </sarcasm>
      - woah 11y ago
        Not true. Terrorism is only done by those who are opposed to US foreign policy.
segmondy 11y ago
Nothing wrong with their orders. Uber is still operating illegally. This is causing public disorder and protests, which is putting lives at risk. I saw a video yesterday where someone dropped a cinder block from a bridge to what they suspect is an Uber car. It seems easier and cheaper to get Uber to comply for now than to stop the protests. The government has to take an action, then have this resolved in the court of law.
- dheavy 11y ago
  > Uber is still operating illegally It's not. UberPOP might be illegal. Uber as a whole, not. UberX/van etc... is a simple transporter service which completely fits with the transporters-related legislation in France. AFAIK you need to be a legal owner of a transporter licence to be an UberX driver. Most UberX/van drivers I've driven with even use Uber as a complementary stream of revenue on top, or besides, their main revenues as transporters. They will also drive for the main local UberX competitor, "Chauffeur Privé". > The government has to take an action, then have this resolved in the court of law Not really. It seems you are unaware that the court of law has already resolved the case once, on December 12th, 2014, stating that UberPOP could pursue its activity in France (http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2014/12/12/le-tribunal-de-commerce-de-paris-n-interdit-pas-uberpop_4539803_3234.html http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2014/12/12/le-tribuna...). > I saw a video yesterday where someone dropped a cinder block from a bridge to what they suspect is an Uber car. I know right... shocking... :-( The worse part? A (Uber) driver on duty at the airport gets harassed by about 60 taxi drivers. He's already on crutches because of a leg injury (few days ago a Uber client was beaten by a bunch of taxi drivers). So he panicks, and uses a portable tear gas can (some drivers carry one in their car because of carjackers) and spray it around on the taxis to be able to evacuate the zone. Instantly gets arrested by the police (yes, the police are always there, they just DON'T stop the taxi drivers). Just got himself 6 months in jail. http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-faits-divers/taxis-contre-uber-six-mois-ferme-pour-un-chauffeur-vtc-apres-une-altercation-7778899957 http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-faits-divers/taxis-contre-ube...
- dimino 11y ago
  So the car that got the brick dropped on it is at fault, rather than the guy dropping the brick?
Fiahil 11y ago
If I read the news right yesterday, the ban only apply to Uber Pop and not Uber as a whole. Anyway, there is no place for such regulation and it's on its way to be terminated soon by some european order, if I recall correctly.
hbbio 11y ago
This situation is ridiculous, both for taxis and the government... and will only serve Uber in the long term. Let's share my view as a Frenchy frog :) 1. Taxi drivers began selling each other taxi driver licenses (although they are obtained for free from the state, on a waiting list). They are angry that Uber registers in a new category, so they "skip" the entry price. But, it's only the taxis fault if they bought licenses and thought they had "value". 2. Violent taxi demonstrations should lead these drivers directly in jail. But it's France, so you don't go to jail... and if you're a lobby (and they clearly are), you even don't get arrested. 3. The government is 100% wrong to side with taxis from day one and punish Uber for the taxi drivers riots, rewarding people who harassed drivers and their customers, destroyed cars and burned streets. It's a huge blow for their popularity which is already very very low. It shows a poor image of the state to both citizens and visitors. 4. People will just stop using taxis more and more. Who wants to be driven by violent guys, and who already are usually bad drivers that even harass people who are not their clients (saw one cab driver last week yell at a woman who was wearing a summer dress)? 5. We're now sure that everybody in France knows about Uber! (and it's not only about Uber, as there is also a French competitor named https://www.chauffeur-prive.com/ https://www.chauffeur-prive.com/ )
- dheavy 11y ago
  > and if you're a lobby (and they clearly are), you even don't get arrested Taxis are, in France, under the tutelage of The Ministry of Interior. They also have strong historical ties with the political party currently in power. The principal taxi company had or still has, within its ranks, a close friend of a former French president (François Mitterand, same party as the current one), and the former Cabinet Treasurer for the current president's campaign.
- bopf 11y ago
  I think this: >4. People will just stop using taxis more and more. Who wants to be driven by violent guys, and who already are usually bad drivers that even harass people who are not their clients (saw one cab driver last week yell at a woman who was wearing a summer dress)? is your strongest argument. Even before the days of Uber, London taxi drivers faced competition by mini cabs. And you know what, there have been a few times where I ordered my mini cab driver to let me out so I could hail a black cab, as the mini cab got totally lost and was just outright incompetent. If the French cab drivers would be even remotely as friendly and competent as a London black cab driver, there would be no need to worry and protest. Good quality always wins in the long run. Having a lobby and a government protect sub par services, does not serve the overall economy at all.
yummyfajitas 11y ago
It's weird watching how the media chooses words. Consider the situation of a bunch of people engaging in violence against third parties in order to advance their political agenda. If the people are Arabs doing it for Islam, it's called "terrorism". If the people are white and doing it for greed masquerading as left wing causes, it's called "protests". Weird how that works.
- lfuller 11y ago
  I think the primary difference is the level of escalation. Protests typically involve destruction of property with violent interpersonal encounters as collateral, while terrorism usually involves torture or mass killings.
cms07 11y ago
A good but unfortunately temporary decision for the working people of France. Good on them.

41 points by itg 11y ago

Thanks for sharing! Interesting thing is that until now, Uber has been paying the drivers' fines for operating illegally while waiting for the court case to be resolved.

bopf 11y ago
way to go France. Instead of punishing the guys who riot and light up cars in the streets, you punish an innovative disruptor.
- stzup7 11y ago
  keep in mind that it only applies to UberPop, not the classic Uber service.
  - dheavy 11y ago
    Though "it only applies for UberPop", please bear in mind that during these riots, all type of transporters, or even just cars that rioters identified with transports cars (any black vans or black sedan cars) were attacked.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  Violating labor and transportation laws to drive demand isn't being a disruptor. Are we so tone deaf in the HackerNews bubble that we don't realize that labor rights aren't a four letter word? I'm not for regulator capture with regards to taxi medallions, but I am supportive of regulations that permit people to have an acceptable quality of life. Or do we need to wait for the next bubble to burst and devs on the street with signs saying "will develop in React for food" to see that? Shall we look down on them as people look down on these protests? (Note: I DO NOT condone property damage or violence)
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    But you have to remember. This is one group of people(taxi drivers), not allowing another group of people(Uber drivers) not to earn a living driving cars. There is no free lunch. If you introduce regulation to protect a group of people, another group of people loses out.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      So the solution is to allow everyone to compete until wages are driven down to 0?
      - UK-AL 11y ago
        By the time wages are driven down to that level, people would have left the profession for better jobs paying more. Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well.
        toomuchtodo 11y ago
        We'll agree to disagree. EDIT (to respond to your EDIT): > Software developers have deal with unregulated competition and do quite well. The level of knowledge and critical thinking required to develop (quality) software is a bit greater than that required to drive a vehicle. I'd argue that as additional resources are developed/released to aid people learning to code, along with resources that make writing code remotely with a team more painless, the value of software developers as a whole will drop.
        UK-AL 11y ago
        Yes. Why should someone be paid quite a high salary, for job that in your words requires a lower education? Shall we mandate all jobs should be paid well? If low skill jobs pay almost as well as high skill/high paying jobs, where's the economic incentive in increasing your skills? In many ways its a trap, because you won't go out of your way to increase your skills. And when people say Taxi driving is actually quite a high skill job. I say you should have no problem fighting off the competition then. "software developers as a whole will drop." And on that day, I'll get an MBA instead proving that the incentives work.
- bnegreve 11y ago
  The individuals who lit up cars should be prosecuted of course. But there's no room for "punishment", this is a serious debate.
Russwrites 11y ago
Really? That's a real mess!
stephengillie 11y ago
In some perspectives, it's just a cost of doing business.

CodeSheikh 11y ago

Learn how to use a smartphone and download the app. Problems solved. I am sure they pay a certain % to w/e Frenchy cab companies anyway akin to infamous Yello-cab in NYC.

BurningFrog 11y ago

In France, rioting is the fourth branch of government.

bgilroy26 11y ago
I'm American, and all but aren't riots/strikes etc examples of how France's political life enjoys a much higher per-capita rate of material participation than USAns are accustomed to seeing?
- mcintyre1994 11y ago
  Absolutely serious question - are riots considered part of political life in the same way protests are? If they are politically motivated, what sets at least these riots apart from terrorism, defined in Oxford Dictionaries as "use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims"?
  - fennecfoxen 11y ago
    Some measure of dramatic violence is a routine part of "industrial action" (i.e. strikes) in France, at least when those strikes are considered to be targeting multinationals. In the past, management officials of 3M and Goodyear were kidnapped. Burning tires and the like are common as well (especially at Goodyear). More generally, France is notorious for being suspicious of foreign influences (international Communism, globalization, Islamism -- heck, even Catholicism, though most of them still practice it at least nominally.) Terrorism... I dunno, terrorists in small groups tend to blow up or gun down people unexpectedly, whereas these protestors in large groups don't generally try to kill or to hide.
  - pmalynin 11y ago
    <sarcasm> Terrorism is reserved for perpetrators with Islamic beliefs. </sarcasm>
    - woah 11y ago
      Not true. Terrorism is only done by those who are opposed to US foreign policy.

segmondy 11y ago

Nothing wrong with their orders. Uber is still operating illegally. This is causing public disorder and protests, which is putting lives at risk. I saw a video yesterday where someone dropped a cinder block from a bridge to what they suspect is an Uber car. It seems easier and cheaper to get Uber to comply for now than to stop the protests. The government has to take an action, then have this resolved in the court of law.

dheavy 11y ago
> Uber is still operating illegally It's not. UberPOP might be illegal. Uber as a whole, not. UberX/van etc... is a simple transporter service which completely fits with the transporters-related legislation in France. AFAIK you need to be a legal owner of a transporter licence to be an UberX driver. Most UberX/van drivers I've driven with even use Uber as a complementary stream of revenue on top, or besides, their main revenues as transporters. They will also drive for the main local UberX competitor, "Chauffeur Privé". > The government has to take an action, then have this resolved in the court of law Not really. It seems you are unaware that the court of law has already resolved the case once, on December 12th, 2014, stating that UberPOP could pursue its activity in France (http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2014/12/12/le-tribunal-de-commerce-de-paris-n-interdit-pas-uberpop_4539803_3234.html http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/2014/12/12/le-tribuna...). > I saw a video yesterday where someone dropped a cinder block from a bridge to what they suspect is an Uber car. I know right... shocking... :-( The worse part? A (Uber) driver on duty at the airport gets harassed by about 60 taxi drivers. He's already on crutches because of a leg injury (few days ago a Uber client was beaten by a bunch of taxi drivers). So he panicks, and uses a portable tear gas can (some drivers carry one in their car because of carjackers) and spray it around on the taxis to be able to evacuate the zone. Instantly gets arrested by the police (yes, the police are always there, they just DON'T stop the taxi drivers). Just got himself 6 months in jail. http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-faits-divers/taxis-contre-uber-six-mois-ferme-pour-un-chauffeur-vtc-apres-une-altercation-7778899957 http://www.rtl.fr/actu/societe-faits-divers/taxis-contre-ube...
dimino 11y ago
So the car that got the brick dropped on it is at fault, rather than the guy dropping the brick?

Fiahil 11y ago

If I read the news right yesterday, the ban only apply to Uber Pop and not Uber as a whole. Anyway, there is no place for such regulation and it's on its way to be terminated soon by some european order, if I recall correctly.

hbbio 11y ago

This situation is ridiculous, both for taxis and the government... and will only serve Uber in the long term. Let's share my view as a Frenchy frog :) 1. Taxi drivers began selling each other taxi driver licenses (although they are obtained for free from the state, on a waiting list). They are angry that Uber registers in a new category, so they "skip" the entry price. But, it's only the taxis fault if they bought licenses and thought they had "value". 2. Violent taxi demonstrations should lead these drivers directly in jail. But it's France, so you don't go to jail... and if you're a lobby (and they clearly are), you even don't get arrested. 3. The government is 100% wrong to side with taxis from day one and punish Uber for the taxi drivers riots, rewarding people who harassed drivers and their customers, destroyed cars and burned streets. It's a huge blow for their popularity which is already very very low. It shows a poor image of the state to both citizens and visitors. 4. People will just stop using taxis more and more. Who wants to be driven by violent guys, and who already are usually bad drivers that even harass people who are not their clients (saw one cab driver last week yell at a woman who was wearing a summer dress)? 5. We're now sure that everybody in France knows about Uber! (and it's not only about Uber, as there is also a French competitor named https://www.chauffeur-prive.com/ https://www.chauffeur-prive.com/ )

dheavy 11y ago
> and if you're a lobby (and they clearly are), you even don't get arrested Taxis are, in France, under the tutelage of The Ministry of Interior. They also have strong historical ties with the political party currently in power. The principal taxi company had or still has, within its ranks, a close friend of a former French president (François Mitterand, same party as the current one), and the former Cabinet Treasurer for the current president's campaign.
bopf 11y ago
I think this: >4. People will just stop using taxis more and more. Who wants to be driven by violent guys, and who already are usually bad drivers that even harass people who are not their clients (saw one cab driver last week yell at a woman who was wearing a summer dress)? is your strongest argument. Even before the days of Uber, London taxi drivers faced competition by mini cabs. And you know what, there have been a few times where I ordered my mini cab driver to let me out so I could hail a black cab, as the mini cab got totally lost and was just outright incompetent. If the French cab drivers would be even remotely as friendly and competent as a London black cab driver, there would be no need to worry and protest. Good quality always wins in the long run. Having a lobby and a government protect sub par services, does not serve the overall economy at all.

yummyfajitas 11y ago

It's weird watching how the media chooses words. Consider the situation of a bunch of people engaging in violence against third parties in order to advance their political agenda. If the people are Arabs doing it for Islam, it's called "terrorism". If the people are white and doing it for greed masquerading as left wing causes, it's called "protests". Weird how that works.

lfuller 11y ago
I think the primary difference is the level of escalation. Protests typically involve destruction of property with violent interpersonal encounters as collateral, while terrorism usually involves torture or mass killings.

cms07 11y ago

A good but unfortunately temporary decision for the working people of France. Good on them.