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But while I think the Windows Registry has a lot of problems, it also is a step forward on the mess if incompatible configuration files found within /etc (and /

But while I think the Windows Registry has a lot of problems, it also is a step forward on the mess if incompatible configuration files found within /etc (and /usr/local/etc) on your average modern UNIX-like OS. Not really. You have certain apps using the file system and others that use the highly limited key-value quasi-file system that is the Registry. There is no single point of truth at all. see systemd, which is trying to evolve classic UNIX concepts and getting massively attacked, even death threats as a result Yeah, that flame war's pretty visceral, but there's plenty of reasons systemd gets criticized (chief of which is the perception that it in fact devolves classic concepts). Windows' file system is also a mess. Windows' file system hierarchy is an enormous mess far surpassing the FHS in Unix. /etc/hosts vs C:\windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts. Enough said. The FHS at least has some semantic meaning that is more-or-less consistent or can be easily deduced, but Windows is just a hodgepodge. The UNIX world is in cryogenic suspension No, there's many people who are trying new approaches. The problem really isn't the use of a hierarchical file system, it's the lack of semantic categorization of configuration locations.

e40 11y ago
100% agree. I've used both for decades and I far prefer /etc to the mishmash of Windows registry and ini files.
- UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
  You've used both for "decades" but think ini files are a substantial part of Windows' inner workings? Microsoft migrated to XML files for non-registry configuration. There's a small handful of legitimate ini files left on Windows (largely for backwards compatibility reasons e.g. win.ini).
  - dagw 11y ago
    Windows might not use .ini files, but lots and lots of windows apps still do.
    - UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
      Not really. XML and SQLite are by far more popular for anything written recently.
      - mavhc 11y ago
        But anything written recently isn't popular
  - e40 11y ago
    I never said ini files dominated. There are still apps that use them, as dagw mentioned. Not all apps are written by Microsoft.
TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago
> The FHS at least has some semantic meaning that is more-or-less consistent or can be easily deduced, but Windows is just a hodgepodge. Really? C:\Windows - Windows itself C:\Program Files - Applications C:\Users - User data
- johnchristopher 11y ago
  It seems clearer but when you install wamp or xampp you'll find a php.ini in c:\wamp\apache and c:\wamp\php (or sthg). Nice names (be it /etc or C:\Users) don't prevent developers to put their config file wherever they can read it. Usually in C:\Users\Alice\Ubisoft if they are in the game business. Or C:\Program Files\Steam\Steamapss if they are in the game business.
  - wvenable 11y ago
    Talking about where PHP (a unix program) puts it's configuration on Windows is hardly a valid point. Even on Linux, that sucker can be hard to find. On my Linux server it is at least 5 levels deep and I have to run phpinfo() just to find it.
    - johnchristopher 11y ago
      > Talking about where PHP (a unix program) puts it's configuration on Windows is hardly a valid point. That's because it's not my point but an example of "it's up to the dev to be consistent or to follow the platform's guideline" which is my point along and with "`Program Files' is a nice folder name but you are going to find some user configuration files in there'". If I remember correctly Foobar asks you when installing where to put its configuration files: user home, or program files. It should not. It should be in C:\Users\Alice\Local Settings (or was it LocalApps ?).
      - chinpokomon 11y ago
        There are guidelines for where developers are supposed to store configuration, and since Vista, it isn't in Program Files. In fact, making changes in Program Files is restricted to the System, or elevated processes. It is often times an indicator that a program is violating accepted practices if it requires elevation of privilege to run. Changes like that are supposed to be stored in the users AppData directory. For backwards compatibility. Vista and descendants provides a virtualized space where writes to restricted directories are allowed, but they are committed to a different isolated space on the disk, preventing a rogue program from, modifying files for which it should not have access. Neither Windows or Linux are perfect in this respect, but for a decade, Microsoft has been trying to unify how applications store user specific data and configuration. There are still ways for developers to abuse the system, but they are considerably restricted from the most glaring mistakes and in general it has gotten better with each revision.
wvenable 11y ago
> /etc/hosts vs C:\windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts. Enough said. Great example if that wasn't a big exception to everything in Windows; pointing it out really just proves the opposite in general. Everything else in Windows in terms of the file system is more straight forward. The registry provides one single format for all configuration. It's not INI, a made up format, JSON, XML, etc. It's still abused by some developers but you can't do much about that.
- vezzy-fnord 11y ago
  My point is said single format's inconsistent use means you end up in the situation where configuration is unevenly distributed between the hierarchical file system, the shell namespace and the key-value store of the Registry with its flaws and misuse. Evidently many find the single format to be limited.
digi_owl 11y ago
The "death threat" was a tongue in cheek comment on IRC late one night after someone had spent their day bug fixing a borked boot after a systemd update or some such. It pretty much amounted to someone musing about using kickstarter to crowd fund an assassin. 1. there is no way it would get past the kickstarter people. 2. it is unlikely that enough people hate poettering so much that it would get off the ground. It was a badly off color joke made by someone mentally exhausted from having to fix something someone else broke. Sadly since then the "for the lulz" troll brigades has latched onto systemd as a source of "amusement"...

e40 11y ago

100% agree. I've used both for decades and I far prefer /etc to the mishmash of Windows registry and ini files.

UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
You've used both for "decades" but think ini files are a substantial part of Windows' inner workings? Microsoft migrated to XML files for non-registry configuration. There's a small handful of legitimate ini files left on Windows (largely for backwards compatibility reasons e.g. win.ini).
- dagw 11y ago
  Windows might not use .ini files, but lots and lots of windows apps still do.
  - UnoriginalGuy 11y ago
    Not really. XML and SQLite are by far more popular for anything written recently.
    - mavhc 11y ago
      But anything written recently isn't popular
- e40 11y ago
  I never said ini files dominated. There are still apps that use them, as dagw mentioned. Not all apps are written by Microsoft.

TazeTSchnitzel 11y ago

> The FHS at least has some semantic meaning that is more-or-less consistent or can be easily deduced, but Windows is just a hodgepodge. Really? C:\Windows - Windows itself C:\Program Files - Applications C:\Users - User data

johnchristopher 11y ago
It seems clearer but when you install wamp or xampp you'll find a php.ini in c:\wamp\apache and c:\wamp\php (or sthg). Nice names (be it /etc or C:\Users) don't prevent developers to put their config file wherever they can read it. Usually in C:\Users\Alice\Ubisoft if they are in the game business. Or C:\Program Files\Steam\Steamapss if they are in the game business.
- wvenable 11y ago
  Talking about where PHP (a unix program) puts it's configuration on Windows is hardly a valid point. Even on Linux, that sucker can be hard to find. On my Linux server it is at least 5 levels deep and I have to run phpinfo() just to find it.
  - johnchristopher 11y ago
    > Talking about where PHP (a unix program) puts it's configuration on Windows is hardly a valid point. That's because it's not my point but an example of "it's up to the dev to be consistent or to follow the platform's guideline" which is my point along and with "`Program Files' is a nice folder name but you are going to find some user configuration files in there'". If I remember correctly Foobar asks you when installing where to put its configuration files: user home, or program files. It should not. It should be in C:\Users\Alice\Local Settings (or was it LocalApps ?).
    - chinpokomon 11y ago
      There are guidelines for where developers are supposed to store configuration, and since Vista, it isn't in Program Files. In fact, making changes in Program Files is restricted to the System, or elevated processes. It is often times an indicator that a program is violating accepted practices if it requires elevation of privilege to run. Changes like that are supposed to be stored in the users AppData directory. For backwards compatibility. Vista and descendants provides a virtualized space where writes to restricted directories are allowed, but they are committed to a different isolated space on the disk, preventing a rogue program from, modifying files for which it should not have access. Neither Windows or Linux are perfect in this respect, but for a decade, Microsoft has been trying to unify how applications store user specific data and configuration. There are still ways for developers to abuse the system, but they are considerably restricted from the most glaring mistakes and in general it has gotten better with each revision.

wvenable 11y ago

> /etc/hosts vs C:\windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts. Enough said. Great example if that wasn't a big exception to everything in Windows; pointing it out really just proves the opposite in general. Everything else in Windows in terms of the file system is more straight forward. The registry provides one single format for all configuration. It's not INI, a made up format, JSON, XML, etc. It's still abused by some developers but you can't do much about that.

vezzy-fnord 11y ago
My point is said single format's inconsistent use means you end up in the situation where configuration is unevenly distributed between the hierarchical file system, the shell namespace and the key-value store of the Registry with its flaws and misuse. Evidently many find the single format to be limited.

digi_owl 11y ago

The "death threat" was a tongue in cheek comment on IRC late one night after someone had spent their day bug fixing a borked boot after a systemd update or some such. It pretty much amounted to someone musing about using kickstarter to crowd fund an assassin. 1. there is no way it would get past the kickstarter people. 2. it is unlikely that enough people hate poettering so much that it would get off the ground. It was a badly off color joke made by someone mentally exhausted from having to fix something someone else broke. Sadly since then the "for the lulz" troll brigades has latched onto systemd as a source of "amusement"...