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That is troubling, but I don't see how that equates to him "suppressing" anyone, if all he's done is voice his own opinions about those people. I haven't really

That is troubling, but I don't see how that equates to him "suppressing" anyone, if all he's done is voice his own opinions about those people. I haven't really followed the story, but was Steve part of the group that demanded Curtis be removed from StrageLoop?

hates_shrooms 11y ago
Worse even. https://archive.is/BtDaA https://archive.is/BtDaA
- steveklabnik 11y ago
  I wasn't going to respond to this thread at all, but since you went to the trouble of using 100% of your comments on this account to post in this thread, and you're spreading this shenanigans, I'll copy what I said over at Lobste.rs: -------------- [This link] takes a thing I said on Twitter and uses it to say something I don’t mean. My twitter reply re: violence is based on the tweet it’s replying to: general activity by groups who call themselves ‘antifa’. I thought my parent was making a false equivalence, but rather than arguing with them about this false equivalence, I decided to just say ‘cool’ and bow out, hence my response. I believe “antifa are just as violent as the fascists” is wrong on multiple levels, but I don’t really care to get into it here, to be honest. -------------- ... and I still don't. That's all I'll be saying here about this.
  - hates_shrooms 11y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHChPftGDQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHChPftGDQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ55KyNrO6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ55KyNrO6A
  - puredemo 11y ago
    Dude, you explicitly said you're "100% okay with [violence] personally" You then said, "the only things fascists respond to is violence. Ignoring them or letting them attack you doesn't help." You then linked to a Woody Allen video where he confidentially states a Nazi march in NYC should be attacked with "bricks and bats" rather than taking a civilized approach against them. You explicitly endorsed violence against political groups you dislike several times, don't try to pretend like you didn't now..
    - kungfooguru 11y ago
      I'd be suspcious of anyone who wasn't ok with violence against Nazis...
      - puredemo 11y ago
        Do you seek out KKK marches and assault them with bricks and bats then?
      - hates_shrooms 11y ago
        Of course "Nazi" being anyone who doesn't go along with your bullshit.
    - rmc 11y ago
      It's the paradox of tolerance. Should a tolerant society tolerate intolerance? The fact that many think: "No we should not tolerate intolerance" is the apparant paradox.
      - hates_shrooms 11y ago
        Yeah first they came for the fascists, and I said nothing, 'cos I'm not a fascist... or wait, maybe I am by their far loco definition!
Ygg2 11y ago
It's not troubling at all, if you stop and look at it for a second - people aren't automatons. Fascism is horrible thing in all it's form and sizes. Even if Steve blurted out that he agrees that the only way to fight fascism is with force (which I haven't divulged from the context, twitter is horrible for conveying meaning), it makes sense once you stop and consider it an emotional response and not an ideology of person that said it.
- kinghajj 11y ago
  The troubling part is the equivalence between speech and violence. I fundamentally don't believe that information can be violent in any way. It can facilitate violence, surely (the plans to a nuclear bomb come to mind,) but it is never inherently violent because information in itself can do nothing.
  - Ygg2 11y ago
    > I fundamentally don't believe that information can be violent in any way. Then congrats on never suffering verbal abuse. Words can hurt and information in itself can do a lot of things in a right(or wrong) context. For example. You arrive in a communist hating community (let's pretend it's during the Red scare). Someone accuses you of being a communist. Witch hunt ensues.
    - kinghajj 11y ago
      > Then congrats on never suffering verbal abuse. define: violence "behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something." It's clear that the meaning of "violence" is physical, not emotional. > Someone accuses you of being a communist. Witch hunt ensues. As I said: "It can facilitate violence, surely".
      - Ygg2 11y ago
        Listen, downvote all you like, but it seems you never were on the wrong end of verbal abuse. Trust me a well sharpened remark, can be waaaaay more painful than a gut punch. I never said witchhunt needed to end with violence. You can become black sheep, losing job, family, friends without a single follicles of your hair being torn. Your freedom could be taken, without you suffering any violence, e.g. house arrest.

hates_shrooms 11y ago

Worse even. https://archive.is/BtDaA https://archive.is/BtDaA

steveklabnik 11y ago
I wasn't going to respond to this thread at all, but since you went to the trouble of using 100% of your comments on this account to post in this thread, and you're spreading this shenanigans, I'll copy what I said over at Lobste.rs: -------------- [This link] takes a thing I said on Twitter and uses it to say something I don’t mean. My twitter reply re: violence is based on the tweet it’s replying to: general activity by groups who call themselves ‘antifa’. I thought my parent was making a false equivalence, but rather than arguing with them about this false equivalence, I decided to just say ‘cool’ and bow out, hence my response. I believe “antifa are just as violent as the fascists” is wrong on multiple levels, but I don’t really care to get into it here, to be honest. -------------- ... and I still don't. That's all I'll be saying here about this.
- hates_shrooms 11y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHChPftGDQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHChPftGDQ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ55KyNrO6A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IJ55KyNrO6A
- puredemo 11y ago
  Dude, you explicitly said you're "100% okay with [violence] personally" You then said, "the only things fascists respond to is violence. Ignoring them or letting them attack you doesn't help." You then linked to a Woody Allen video where he confidentially states a Nazi march in NYC should be attacked with "bricks and bats" rather than taking a civilized approach against them. You explicitly endorsed violence against political groups you dislike several times, don't try to pretend like you didn't now..
  - kungfooguru 11y ago
    I'd be suspcious of anyone who wasn't ok with violence against Nazis...
    - puredemo 11y ago
      Do you seek out KKK marches and assault them with bricks and bats then?
    - hates_shrooms 11y ago
      Of course "Nazi" being anyone who doesn't go along with your bullshit.
  - rmc 11y ago
    It's the paradox of tolerance. Should a tolerant society tolerate intolerance? The fact that many think: "No we should not tolerate intolerance" is the apparant paradox.
    - hates_shrooms 11y ago
      Yeah first they came for the fascists, and I said nothing, 'cos I'm not a fascist... or wait, maybe I am by their far loco definition!

Ygg2 11y ago

It's not troubling at all, if you stop and look at it for a second - people aren't automatons. Fascism is horrible thing in all it's form and sizes. Even if Steve blurted out that he agrees that the only way to fight fascism is with force (which I haven't divulged from the context, twitter is horrible for conveying meaning), it makes sense once you stop and consider it an emotional response and not an ideology of person that said it.

kinghajj 11y ago
The troubling part is the equivalence between speech and violence. I fundamentally don't believe that information can be violent in any way. It can facilitate violence, surely (the plans to a nuclear bomb come to mind,) but it is never inherently violent because information in itself can do nothing.
- Ygg2 11y ago
  > I fundamentally don't believe that information can be violent in any way. Then congrats on never suffering verbal abuse. Words can hurt and information in itself can do a lot of things in a right(or wrong) context. For example. You arrive in a communist hating community (let's pretend it's during the Red scare). Someone accuses you of being a communist. Witch hunt ensues.
  - kinghajj 11y ago
    > Then congrats on never suffering verbal abuse. define: violence "behavior involving physical force intended to hurt, damage, or kill someone or something." It's clear that the meaning of "violence" is physical, not emotional. > Someone accuses you of being a communist. Witch hunt ensues. As I said: "It can facilitate violence, surely".
    - Ygg2 11y ago
      Listen, downvote all you like, but it seems you never were on the wrong end of verbal abuse. Trust me a well sharpened remark, can be waaaaay more painful than a gut punch. I never said witchhunt needed to end with violence. You can become black sheep, losing job, family, friends without a single follicles of your hair being torn. Your freedom could be taken, without you suffering any violence, e.g. house arrest.