3 ms·

Genuine question. Can you give me an ELI5 version of your statement? I don't quite follow the point you're making.

mikeash 11y ago
The short version is: If you stand up and rebel individually, all you accomplish is getting thrown in jail. If a million people stand up and rebel one after another, all they accomplish is getting thrown in jail. If a million people stand up and rebel together, only then do you accomplish anything. Getting a million people to rebel together is really hard, because each one is fearful of running into one of the first two situations instead.
- krmmalik 11y ago
  Ah yes. That completely makes sense. I have been thinking this separately already. Thank you for explaining it though. I appreciate it. More to the point I agree with you.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    Glad to help. And just to follow up real quickly, a "collective action problem" is the standard term in game theory for a situation which fits this kind of scenario, where everyone is better off if they all act together, but any individual acting alone is worse off than if he never acted at all.
  - murbard2 11y ago
    Regarding the second part of the statement... Take Kim Jong Un. He holds considerable power, yet he is probably not particularly physically strong. Of course, he could use a firearm, but even then, he would be fairly easy to stop. However, he has body guard. Besides loyalty, a good reason for these body guards to obey his orders is that otherwise they will be arrested and executed. The people carrying out the arrest will also act on the same incentives. In the end, there is nothing intrinsically powerful about Kim, there just happens to be a complex meta-stable equilibrium of incentives which gives him considerable power.
- hwstar 11y ago
  "If a million people stand up and rebel together, only then do you accomplish anything." Even that might not be enough. The government would force the courts closed declaring martial law, then the national guard would construct prisoner detention facilities from tents and barbed wire to house the million rebels, then try them for treason with military tribunals. I think you would need about 25 million rebels to make it work.

The short version is: If you stand up and rebel individually, all you accomplish is getting thrown in jail. If a million people stand up and rebel one after another, all they accomplish is getting thrown in jail. If a million people stand up and rebel together, only then do you accomplish anything. Getting a million people to rebel together is really hard, because each one is fearful of running into one of the first two situations instead.

krmmalik 11y ago
Ah yes. That completely makes sense. I have been thinking this separately already. Thank you for explaining it though. I appreciate it. More to the point I agree with you.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Glad to help. And just to follow up real quickly, a "collective action problem" is the standard term in game theory for a situation which fits this kind of scenario, where everyone is better off if they all act together, but any individual acting alone is worse off than if he never acted at all.
- murbard2 11y ago
  Regarding the second part of the statement... Take Kim Jong Un. He holds considerable power, yet he is probably not particularly physically strong. Of course, he could use a firearm, but even then, he would be fairly easy to stop. However, he has body guard. Besides loyalty, a good reason for these body guards to obey his orders is that otherwise they will be arrested and executed. The people carrying out the arrest will also act on the same incentives. In the end, there is nothing intrinsically powerful about Kim, there just happens to be a complex meta-stable equilibrium of incentives which gives him considerable power.
hwstar 11y ago
"If a million people stand up and rebel together, only then do you accomplish anything." Even that might not be enough. The government would force the courts closed declaring martial law, then the national guard would construct prisoner detention facilities from tents and barbed wire to house the million rebels, then try them for treason with military tribunals. I think you would need about 25 million rebels to make it work.