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There is very little proof that the techno-utopian version of autonomous vehicles is going to play out the way people like you want it to. Sure, on the surface

There is very little proof that the techno-utopian version of autonomous vehicles is going to play out the way people like you want it to. Sure, on the surface Taxi's are dead, but I would wager that it will be a lot slower than people on here think, not least for the difficulty of cleaning autonomous cabs.

topynate 11y ago
Cab drives to cleaners; some dude cleans cab. A few minutes work per day per cab. Maybe the other factors will be of more importance, but I don't see huge labour costs here. Oh, and bonus: hiring an autonomous account will likely involve disclosing your identity in advance. If you're the sort of customer who makes a habit of fouling cabs, maybe you'll have to pay more to hire one.
jobigoud 11y ago
We already have car sharing services like Autolib where you can pick up an electric car at a station, use it, and park it at another station. I imagine cleaning autonomous cabs will be exactly the same effort than cleaning shared cars. Probably less if the car can drive itself to the depot.
- fab13n 11y ago
  Yes, as long as you know who used a vehicle, chances of getting it thrashed are easily manageable.
yourapostasy 11y ago
There are even investors and syndicates inserting themselves into the medallion markets now [1]. When you see even these market participants pulling out altogether, then I can easily believe the autonomous passenger vehicle is within 5-20 years of obliterating the taxi industry (though I doubt that will happen). I'm not aware of a way to short medallions, so I can't tell if that is going on. So far as I can tell, these people are still participating in the medallion market and various secondary markets, despite the recent downward tick of medallion prices. I'm guessing they and the industry in general have a lot of political pull, and are counting on that influence to wring another few decades out of conventional taxis before autonomous options mutate them into a different-looking industry. Unless there is a really broad-based public backlash that makes it political suicide to continue licensing however, even if autonomous vehicles are ubiquitous I can't see municipalities and various institutions and agencies in general giving up the affiliated revenue stream. Even if we end up with something like Johnny Cabs [2] and no humans drive taxis any longer, I expect some form of government-imposed licensing to still exist. [1] http://venturebeat.com/2014/06/21/add-taxi-medallion-investors-to-the-list-of-ubers-enemies/ http://venturebeat.com/2014/06/21/add-taxi-medallion-investo... [2] http://www.empireonline.com/features/helpful-movie-robots-that-will-ruin-your-life/p10 http://www.empireonline.com/features/helpful-movie-robots-th...
- fab13n 11y ago
  The thing is, autonomous vehicles don't need to take the taxi niche frontally. Here's how it goes, if legislation is too slow: 1. families buy one autonomous car instead of several driven ones: when dad's arrived at work, the car goes back to become mom's car for the day. With a nice twist: when the car goes and fetch kids from soccer, mom doesn't have to be in it. 2. People pool cars privately: one car for a couple of families if they're light users, X/Y cars for X families for more intensive users. It's shared property, neither a taxi activity nor even a company providing a service. 2bis. Some AirBnB of autonomous cars facilitates mutual lending of cars, in parallel with the development of privately organized pools 3. Cars are leased instead of bought upfront, from companies embedded with the AirBnB-of-autonomous-cars. What you have now is effectively an autonomous taxi company. The economic pressure to get rid of drivers will be enormous. Sure, car makers and drivers won't like it, but all of the money that won't go there will be up for grab by other sectors. Think of trucks: not only autonomous trucks will drive 23h a day, but everyone who sells anything moved by truck will have their margin augmented by skipping drivers' salaries.
  - yourapostasy 11y ago
    Excellent observations. For trucks, there are other big downstream effects. The big diesel engines preferentially run continuously, and with autonomous driving we'll see run times between engine shutdowns increase pretty steeply. Manufacturers can tune engine development accordingly so continuous running is the norm. Diesel consumption per unit mass will enjoy a marginal improvement; diesel repair shops will see a marginal decline. If we see concurrent automation of refueling, truck stops will experience a dramatic decline. If medium and light truck bodies are aligned to a standardized set of chassis, then some of the fleets of delivery trucks that lay idle half the day or longer today can run around the clock, swapping bodies and switching duties when needed. If we can automate quiet garbage pickup, then a garbage truck that usually only runs during the day can run around the clock. If we can automate safe delivery of liquid fuels, then entire fleets of various fuel delivery trucks will lay off a lot of drivers. The pattern I'm seeing is the actual driving might get automated, but the endpoint activities might not be subject to automation just yet, but that might only be a matter of time and possibly standardization.
kaa2102 11y ago
One problem is that replacing truck drivers with self-driving trucks could save lots of money. However, truck driving is one of the most popular professions in America. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/truck-driving-may-be-america-s-most-popular-job--182859840.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/truck-driving-may-be-america-s...

topynate 11y ago

Cab drives to cleaners; some dude cleans cab. A few minutes work per day per cab. Maybe the other factors will be of more importance, but I don't see huge labour costs here. Oh, and bonus: hiring an autonomous account will likely involve disclosing your identity in advance. If you're the sort of customer who makes a habit of fouling cabs, maybe you'll have to pay more to hire one.

jobigoud 11y ago

We already have car sharing services like Autolib where you can pick up an electric car at a station, use it, and park it at another station. I imagine cleaning autonomous cabs will be exactly the same effort than cleaning shared cars. Probably less if the car can drive itself to the depot.

fab13n 11y ago
Yes, as long as you know who used a vehicle, chances of getting it thrashed are easily manageable.

yourapostasy 11y ago

There are even investors and syndicates inserting themselves into the medallion markets now [1]. When you see even these market participants pulling out altogether, then I can easily believe the autonomous passenger vehicle is within 5-20 years of obliterating the taxi industry (though I doubt that will happen). I'm not aware of a way to short medallions, so I can't tell if that is going on. So far as I can tell, these people are still participating in the medallion market and various secondary markets, despite the recent downward tick of medallion prices. I'm guessing they and the industry in general have a lot of political pull, and are counting on that influence to wring another few decades out of conventional taxis before autonomous options mutate them into a different-looking industry. Unless there is a really broad-based public backlash that makes it political suicide to continue licensing however, even if autonomous vehicles are ubiquitous I can't see municipalities and various institutions and agencies in general giving up the affiliated revenue stream. Even if we end up with something like Johnny Cabs [2] and no humans drive taxis any longer, I expect some form of government-imposed licensing to still exist. [1] http://venturebeat.com/2014/06/21/add-taxi-medallion-investors-to-the-list-of-ubers-enemies/ http://venturebeat.com/2014/06/21/add-taxi-medallion-investo... [2] http://www.empireonline.com/features/helpful-movie-robots-that-will-ruin-your-life/p10 http://www.empireonline.com/features/helpful-movie-robots-th...

fab13n 11y ago
The thing is, autonomous vehicles don't need to take the taxi niche frontally. Here's how it goes, if legislation is too slow: 1. families buy one autonomous car instead of several driven ones: when dad's arrived at work, the car goes back to become mom's car for the day. With a nice twist: when the car goes and fetch kids from soccer, mom doesn't have to be in it. 2. People pool cars privately: one car for a couple of families if they're light users, X/Y cars for X families for more intensive users. It's shared property, neither a taxi activity nor even a company providing a service. 2bis. Some AirBnB of autonomous cars facilitates mutual lending of cars, in parallel with the development of privately organized pools 3. Cars are leased instead of bought upfront, from companies embedded with the AirBnB-of-autonomous-cars. What you have now is effectively an autonomous taxi company. The economic pressure to get rid of drivers will be enormous. Sure, car makers and drivers won't like it, but all of the money that won't go there will be up for grab by other sectors. Think of trucks: not only autonomous trucks will drive 23h a day, but everyone who sells anything moved by truck will have their margin augmented by skipping drivers' salaries.
- yourapostasy 11y ago
  Excellent observations. For trucks, there are other big downstream effects. The big diesel engines preferentially run continuously, and with autonomous driving we'll see run times between engine shutdowns increase pretty steeply. Manufacturers can tune engine development accordingly so continuous running is the norm. Diesel consumption per unit mass will enjoy a marginal improvement; diesel repair shops will see a marginal decline. If we see concurrent automation of refueling, truck stops will experience a dramatic decline. If medium and light truck bodies are aligned to a standardized set of chassis, then some of the fleets of delivery trucks that lay idle half the day or longer today can run around the clock, swapping bodies and switching duties when needed. If we can automate quiet garbage pickup, then a garbage truck that usually only runs during the day can run around the clock. If we can automate safe delivery of liquid fuels, then entire fleets of various fuel delivery trucks will lay off a lot of drivers. The pattern I'm seeing is the actual driving might get automated, but the endpoint activities might not be subject to automation just yet, but that might only be a matter of time and possibly standardization.

kaa2102 11y ago

One problem is that replacing truck drivers with self-driving trucks could save lots of money. However, truck driving is one of the most popular professions in America. http://finance.yahoo.com/news/truck-driving-may-be-america-s-most-popular-job--182859840.html http://finance.yahoo.com/news/truck-driving-may-be-america-s...