7 ms·

I took my wife to Paris last year. When I turned up a taxi tout (I assume for an un-licensed taxi) offered to get us to our hotel (about 6 km away) for 100 euro

I took my wife to Paris last year. When I turned up a taxi tout (I assume for an un-licensed taxi) offered to get us to our hotel (about 6 km away) for 100 euro. When I demurred he kindly lowered the price to 60 euro. I ordered an uber, which picked us up in ~10 mins and the total cost was 20 euro. So while I sympathize with taxi drivers, they really can't expect consumers to not prefer something that's manifestly better for them. BTW in London, before uber a black cab might cost me £60-70 to get home if I'd missed a train. An uber now can be as little as £25, which is low enough that I can just not worry about the terribly unreliable and sparse trains and plan my trip home that way.

anticon 11y ago
You get what you pay for. If you're happy to entrust your life into a random untrained uninsured stranger, then go ahead and get the cheaper unregulated taxi.
- boothead 11y ago
  I'm pretty sure that the taxi that was being touted for the first time was also unregulated, so it's extremely unclear here what 3x my money was going to get me. Quality of black cabs and mini-cabs in London in also wildly variable. At least with uber you can actually leave a bad review (I'm not sure what comes of those) but I get a response on bad reviews at least.
  - anticon 11y ago
    Never had a bad black cab ride. I'd trust any black cab driver over software/GPS etc.
    - boothead 11y ago
      Almost every black cab ride I've ever had has been great - and they most certainly know how to get round London better than a newly minted uber driver with google maps. However if you've never had a black cab with the driver spouting racist/misogynist/anti immigration rhetoric they whole journey, then you haven't lived ;-)
      - anticon 11y ago
        A lot of taxi drivers grew up when London was part of England, before it became a "global city". It's unsurprising that they miss those days when it was still culturally part of England.
- ad_hominem 11y ago
  Regulations didn't save John Nash from dying in a traditional taxi. If you're happy to entrust your life to a random stranger that's shielded from market conditions/feedback, then go ahead and get the regulated taxi.
  - hoopd 11y ago
    You think market conditions will make taxis safer? Why do you think we have OSHA? Why do you think selling products with lead paint in them is illegal?
    - dylanjermiah 11y ago
      Market conditions have made transportation safer. Two way rating systems, accessible GPS, drivers #, drivers picture, driers location, arrival time etc.
      - hoopd 11y ago
        Those aren't market conditions, they're technological advances.
        dylanjermiah 11y ago
        These qualities are present because they were superior to the previous market provider, in order to compete in a free market your product or service has to be superior in some manner. Competitive market forces like safety, efficieny (both price and liquidity) are what makes Uber successful. No laws dictated these qualities, no legislation demanded this level of safety. These practices were conceived via market forces, and safety was a by product.
        wfo 11y ago
        Safety precautions are in fact codified by law. Uber is in the business of breaking the law and ignoring all regulations. The fact that they have a substitute that follows the spirit of the regulations if not the letter and provides safety is the only reason governments have chosen to allow Uber to exist. The safety precautions Uber has ARE required by regulation, though implicitly; they act as a substitute which makes Uber's lawbreaking far less egregious.
- icebraining 11y ago
  If you're happy to entrust your life into a random untrained uninsured stranger, then go ahead and get the cheaper unregulated taxi. Except the whole point is that taxi license owners want to prevent me from doing that.
jusben1369 11y ago
In general I agree with what you're saying. I also use Uber and enjoy Uber a great deal. But I think it's important to understand that a) There's a very good chance that your fare is subsidized by venture capital and does not reflect a "true" fare and that b) this subsidization, like any subsidization, will drive non subsidized competitors from your marketplace which can result in c) Uber deciding to no longer subsidize the true cost of a fare and you having a marketplace with far less competition.
- navait 11y ago
  I'm under the impression that this violates US anti-trust laws - is this not the case?
  - icebraining 11y ago
    It's called "predatory pricing," but I think you must usually prove that the intent is specifically to eliminate your competition - simply selling below cost isn't illegal, AFAIK (IANAL). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing
    - fixermark 11y ago
      Especially if your process is legitimately more efficient.
- npalli 11y ago
  Uber takes 20% cut on the fares and taxi drivers are happy to take the deal. By what process do you think venture capital is subsidizing the fare?
- boothead 11y ago
  You're right - all of these things are of concern. The incumbents never really seem to make an argument beyond shrieking that their protected racket is being disrupted though. I remember one hilarious picture on the news of a cabbie f-ing and blinding to a reporter out of his window at a protest against uber. Just behind him in his cab was a sign saying "cash only". When an innovation comes along and starts stealing your lunch, screaming that you were here first isn't really going to help you much!
spanishcow 11y ago
I think that Taxi fares on Paris are fixed: http://www.taxis-de-france.com/professionnel/tarifstaxis.htm http://www.taxis-de-france.com/professionnel/tarifstaxis.htm So it is quite estrange what you are telling. Maybe it was a pirate taxi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_taxicab_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_taxicab_operation)?
- boothead 11y ago
  It was almost certainly a pirate taxi. I guess my point was that using the same app I use in London and knowing that I'm not going to get ripped off in a strange* city was quite nice * that's strange as in unfamiliar ;-)
nicolasp 11y ago
When someone comes to you to offer you a "taxi" service in France, it's pretty certainly a scam (especially with a price like that). A licensed taxi has a sign on the roof, doesn't randomly offer you its service, and its price is regulated. It never would have cost you even 60€ for 6 km. It would have been roughly the same as with the Uber, maybe a bit cheaper. The question of whether you would prefer a licensed taxi or an Uber is a different one which I won't get into for now :)
- nothrabannosir 11y ago
  The problem is that I now have to know, for every country I visit, what their taxi regulation laws are and how they enforce them. With Uber, I know the brand, and I can just expect not to get scammed. For international travelers it's the franchising aspect that is most appealing.
  - exDM69 11y ago
    Uber operates in countries where their services are not in compliance with the local legislation (or operate in a gray area), and are operating until they get to a court case that will decide whether it is legal or not. So if you don't know the local taxi regulation, your Uber might get pulled over by the cops who take the driver and you're left in the middle of nowhere. This has happened in Helsinki, for example (where the local taxi service is very reliable, albeit somewhat expensive and may be busy at certain hours). In general, when visiting a country, you are expected to roughly know what the local legislation is.
    - SilasX 11y ago
      So getting pulled over for using a trusted brand with a reputation at stake instead of the local tourist-preying cabs is supposed to be proof of the value of taxi regulation?
      - exDM69 11y ago
        There are no tourist predator cabs in Helsinki because the cops stop anyone suspected of running an illegal cab service, including Uber rides. Many of the horror stories of getting ripped off in this thread have indeed been pirate cabs with no regulation behind them. There might be some reasonable middle ground but I'm quite happy paying for a reliable, regulated service despite it's flaws rather than a wild west situation.
emodendroket 11y ago
Are you really comparing Uber to conmen trying to trick tourists into expensive rides? Of course it's better than that. I'll also add that Uber is better than being mugged, assaulted, or pickpocketed. So what?
silverlake 11y ago
I had the same experience. Uber was routinely cheaper than taxis in France. And hailing with an app is astoundingly better than waving at cars in the rain.
- Renaud 11y ago
  You can't hail a taxi in France. Either you wait at a designated spot that bears a Taxi sign, or you need to call for them. There are a few apps that work great in Paris like 'Taxis Bleus' and are more convenient than Uber since you can get a taxi to pick you up in a few minutes (they are usually more taxis around you than Uber cars). Having said that, I'm all for competing cab services. The French taxi system has been games to protect a the taxi drivers at the expense of the users, resulting in high prices and an less convenience (can't hail a taxi).
  - nicolasp 11y ago
    What? You can definitely hail a taxi in France. It can sometimes be very hard to find one that is free, but there's no law that says you have to either call for them or go to a taxi stop.
    - Renaud 11y ago
      I stand corrected. I don't remember what persuaded me to the contrary. It's nevertheless a daunting task compared to the experience you get as a user in many other countries.
makeitsuckless 11y ago
Yes, illegal, unregulated services tend to be cheaper. What a groundbreaking discovery.
- fennecfoxen 11y ago
  Well, sure, that's true. But let's augment that discovery: Illegal, unregulated services preferred by customers on both price and quality, despite substantial disadvantages (street hails, airport pickup nonsense, etc). That should kind of leave you asking: exactly who are those regulations supposed to be protecting, anyway?
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    The answer is taxi drivers.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
dia_ton_dia_ton 11y ago
This comment is just absurd!. Great deal of ignorance and not knowing in it... waka-waka
- boothead 11y ago
  Please - do enlighten me.

anticon 11y ago

You get what you pay for. If you're happy to entrust your life into a random untrained uninsured stranger, then go ahead and get the cheaper unregulated taxi.

boothead 11y ago
I'm pretty sure that the taxi that was being touted for the first time was also unregulated, so it's extremely unclear here what 3x my money was going to get me. Quality of black cabs and mini-cabs in London in also wildly variable. At least with uber you can actually leave a bad review (I'm not sure what comes of those) but I get a response on bad reviews at least.
- anticon 11y ago
  Never had a bad black cab ride. I'd trust any black cab driver over software/GPS etc.
  - boothead 11y ago
    Almost every black cab ride I've ever had has been great - and they most certainly know how to get round London better than a newly minted uber driver with google maps. However if you've never had a black cab with the driver spouting racist/misogynist/anti immigration rhetoric they whole journey, then you haven't lived ;-)
    - anticon 11y ago
      A lot of taxi drivers grew up when London was part of England, before it became a "global city". It's unsurprising that they miss those days when it was still culturally part of England.
ad_hominem 11y ago
Regulations didn't save John Nash from dying in a traditional taxi. If you're happy to entrust your life to a random stranger that's shielded from market conditions/feedback, then go ahead and get the regulated taxi.
- hoopd 11y ago
  You think market conditions will make taxis safer? Why do you think we have OSHA? Why do you think selling products with lead paint in them is illegal?
  - dylanjermiah 11y ago
    Market conditions have made transportation safer. Two way rating systems, accessible GPS, drivers #, drivers picture, driers location, arrival time etc.
    - hoopd 11y ago
      Those aren't market conditions, they're technological advances.
      - dylanjermiah 11y ago
        These qualities are present because they were superior to the previous market provider, in order to compete in a free market your product or service has to be superior in some manner. Competitive market forces like safety, efficieny (both price and liquidity) are what makes Uber successful. No laws dictated these qualities, no legislation demanded this level of safety. These practices were conceived via market forces, and safety was a by product.
        wfo 11y ago
        Safety precautions are in fact codified by law. Uber is in the business of breaking the law and ignoring all regulations. The fact that they have a substitute that follows the spirit of the regulations if not the letter and provides safety is the only reason governments have chosen to allow Uber to exist. The safety precautions Uber has ARE required by regulation, though implicitly; they act as a substitute which makes Uber's lawbreaking far less egregious.
icebraining 11y ago
If you're happy to entrust your life into a random untrained uninsured stranger, then go ahead and get the cheaper unregulated taxi. Except the whole point is that taxi license owners want to prevent me from doing that.

jusben1369 11y ago

In general I agree with what you're saying. I also use Uber and enjoy Uber a great deal. But I think it's important to understand that a) There's a very good chance that your fare is subsidized by venture capital and does not reflect a "true" fare and that b) this subsidization, like any subsidization, will drive non subsidized competitors from your marketplace which can result in c) Uber deciding to no longer subsidize the true cost of a fare and you having a marketplace with far less competition.

navait 11y ago
I'm under the impression that this violates US anti-trust laws - is this not the case?
- icebraining 11y ago
  It's called "predatory pricing," but I think you must usually prove that the intent is specifically to eliminate your competition - simply selling below cost isn't illegal, AFAIK (IANAL). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing
  - fixermark 11y ago
    Especially if your process is legitimately more efficient.
npalli 11y ago
Uber takes 20% cut on the fares and taxi drivers are happy to take the deal. By what process do you think venture capital is subsidizing the fare?
boothead 11y ago
You're right - all of these things are of concern. The incumbents never really seem to make an argument beyond shrieking that their protected racket is being disrupted though. I remember one hilarious picture on the news of a cabbie f-ing and blinding to a reporter out of his window at a protest against uber. Just behind him in his cab was a sign saying "cash only". When an innovation comes along and starts stealing your lunch, screaming that you were here first isn't really going to help you much!

spanishcow 11y ago

I think that Taxi fares on Paris are fixed: http://www.taxis-de-france.com/professionnel/tarifstaxis.htm http://www.taxis-de-france.com/professionnel/tarifstaxis.htm So it is quite estrange what you are telling. Maybe it was a pirate taxi (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_taxicab_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_taxicab_operation)?

boothead 11y ago
It was almost certainly a pirate taxi. I guess my point was that using the same app I use in London and knowing that I'm not going to get ripped off in a strange* city was quite nice * that's strange as in unfamiliar ;-)

nicolasp 11y ago

When someone comes to you to offer you a "taxi" service in France, it's pretty certainly a scam (especially with a price like that). A licensed taxi has a sign on the roof, doesn't randomly offer you its service, and its price is regulated. It never would have cost you even 60€ for 6 km. It would have been roughly the same as with the Uber, maybe a bit cheaper. The question of whether you would prefer a licensed taxi or an Uber is a different one which I won't get into for now :)

nothrabannosir 11y ago
The problem is that I now have to know, for every country I visit, what their taxi regulation laws are and how they enforce them. With Uber, I know the brand, and I can just expect not to get scammed. For international travelers it's the franchising aspect that is most appealing.
- exDM69 11y ago
  Uber operates in countries where their services are not in compliance with the local legislation (or operate in a gray area), and are operating until they get to a court case that will decide whether it is legal or not. So if you don't know the local taxi regulation, your Uber might get pulled over by the cops who take the driver and you're left in the middle of nowhere. This has happened in Helsinki, for example (where the local taxi service is very reliable, albeit somewhat expensive and may be busy at certain hours). In general, when visiting a country, you are expected to roughly know what the local legislation is.
  - SilasX 11y ago
    So getting pulled over for using a trusted brand with a reputation at stake instead of the local tourist-preying cabs is supposed to be proof of the value of taxi regulation?
    - exDM69 11y ago
      There are no tourist predator cabs in Helsinki because the cops stop anyone suspected of running an illegal cab service, including Uber rides. Many of the horror stories of getting ripped off in this thread have indeed been pirate cabs with no regulation behind them. There might be some reasonable middle ground but I'm quite happy paying for a reliable, regulated service despite it's flaws rather than a wild west situation.

emodendroket 11y ago

Are you really comparing Uber to conmen trying to trick tourists into expensive rides? Of course it's better than that. I'll also add that Uber is better than being mugged, assaulted, or pickpocketed. So what?

silverlake 11y ago

I had the same experience. Uber was routinely cheaper than taxis in France. And hailing with an app is astoundingly better than waving at cars in the rain.

Renaud 11y ago
You can't hail a taxi in France. Either you wait at a designated spot that bears a Taxi sign, or you need to call for them. There are a few apps that work great in Paris like 'Taxis Bleus' and are more convenient than Uber since you can get a taxi to pick you up in a few minutes (they are usually more taxis around you than Uber cars). Having said that, I'm all for competing cab services. The French taxi system has been games to protect a the taxi drivers at the expense of the users, resulting in high prices and an less convenience (can't hail a taxi).
- nicolasp 11y ago
  What? You can definitely hail a taxi in France. It can sometimes be very hard to find one that is free, but there's no law that says you have to either call for them or go to a taxi stop.
  - Renaud 11y ago
    I stand corrected. I don't remember what persuaded me to the contrary. It's nevertheless a daunting task compared to the experience you get as a user in many other countries.

makeitsuckless 11y ago

Yes, illegal, unregulated services tend to be cheaper. What a groundbreaking discovery.

fennecfoxen 11y ago
Well, sure, that's true. But let's augment that discovery: Illegal, unregulated services preferred by customers on both price and quality, despite substantial disadvantages (street hails, airport pickup nonsense, etc). That should kind of leave you asking: exactly who are those regulations supposed to be protecting, anyway?
- UK-AL 11y ago
  The answer is taxi drivers.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]

dia_ton_dia_ton 11y ago

This comment is just absurd!. Great deal of ignorance and not knowing in it... waka-waka

boothead 11y ago
Please - do enlighten me.