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French Uber protests block airports
- shiggerino 11y agoI hate calling for cabs, waiting in a queue, answering all sorts of irrelevant questions beyond where I want to be picked up, only to have the cab show up at the wrong place anyway. So Uber is definitely scratching an itch. An itch that the traditional taxi companies can just as easily scratch with an app of their own. So they'd better clear the road and start hacking, because this strike won't save them in the long run.
- derrida 11y agoI love simply raising my arm to have a driver arrive to take me anywhere, having a conversation in a way that two only two total strangers can, & arriving at my destination for the equivalent of one hours work on minimum wage (Sydney). Cabs. I love that this is profitable, and is a job that lots of folk can get. One cabbie I talked to once used to program VAX machines.
- saiya-jin 11y agogood that you enjoy it, but this is about France, most socialistic country in western Europe with crippling national strikes all the time (not condemning, just observing since I am rarely affected). People there generally often have the perception that their own job security should be held above everybody's convenience, rights and so on (it's also heavily unionized, which kind of makes sense with whole picture of the country and mentality). It's just not a very competitive job market
- ebiester 11y agoSo, because you live and travel around populated places, you don't see the problem. Therefore, it must not exist. In SF, it's great if you life in the mission, bad if you live in the Richmond. (Actually, there's a good app that works with the cabs there, but before that...) In Boston, don't live in Dorchester or JP. Calling a cab here is unreliable. Living in a more sparse city, the only way to get a cab is dispatch. It's terrible.
- derrida 11y agoI guess someone could do something about that. Stallman thinks Uber is a good candidate for a GPL clone. Smartphones, servers & drivers.
- cowsandmilk 11y ago> In Boston, don't live in Dorchester or JP. Calling a cab here is unreliable. I one time opened the Uber app in Dorchester. A driver accepted me. I watched him drive around the fens in circles for the next half hour (literally, Park Drive to Fenway to Park Drive to Fenway). So I cancelled the fare. And Uber then charged me a $10 fee because I cancelled more than 5 minutes after the driver accepted. Don't know what the fuck that was all about, but the one time I tried in Dorchester, Uber was horrid.
- rtpg 11y ago>Living in a more sparse city, the only way to get a cab is dispatch. It's terrible. Isn't Uber basically dispatch? Or are there extra fees involved? Serious question
- ebiester 11y agoIt's essentially dispatch, but done in a customer-friendly way.
- mseebach 11y agoGood thing you can have that exact same experience on Uber, word-for-word except replace "hitting a button on my smartphone" for "raising my arm". Then add the benefit of Uber also working a bit away from those busy downtown streets where just raising your arm is actually enough to get a cab.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- rplnt 11y agoIn Bratislava (at least), there is a taxi service operating over multiple companies and independent drivers. I've never used it, but it's apparently pretty good. You rate drivers and all. Still under all the TAXI regulation. I think that's the right way to do things.
- anticon 11y agoWhy do you think it won't save them? Uber has been banned and ruled illegal. I doubt that'll be overturned. The strike is just to raise public awareness of multinational companies coming in and not following regulations to make more profit.
- conradfr 11y agoThey do, at least big taxi companies : https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.taxisg7.grandpublic&hl=en https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=fr.taxisg7.gra...
- shiggerino 11y agoA step in the right direction, at least. Problem is, if I come to a new town I probably won't be checking the app store. So it would have to be something that spans the whole EU. Also, EU needs to be a single data roaming zone, it's completely ridiculous the way it is now. It's often the same damn cell provider, but because it's a different country there's a completely unreasonable extra charge and an insulting data cap. Edit: looking at the reviews, apparently they charge for the trip to your location before they even pick you up, which is just stupid. Wouldn't they actually want to encourage using the app so people aren't clogging the call centres?
- makeitsuckless 11y agoThe local taxi company I usually use in Amsterdam had an app before Uber was even a thing. That's a lame excuse. The only itch Uber is scratching is the libertarian itch to circumvent consumer protection, environmental protection and labour laws.
- fennecfoxen 11y ago> The only itch Uber is scratching is the libertarian itch to circumvent consumer protection, environmental protection and labour laws. A coworker of mine has an amusing tale to illustrate how well consumer-protection laws protected him when his NYC taxi driver, driving on an illegally-borrowed medallion, demanded cash (instead of credit) to keep the transaction off the books, briefly holding him hostage and threatening to steal his luggage.
- makeitsuckless 11y agoYes, because theft and extortion are covered by consumer protection laws. Oh, wait... You do realize that the only difference Uber here makes is that it makes it easier for the criminal in question, since doesn't even have to bother stealing a medallion or have car that looks like a taxi?
- UK-AL 11y agoConsumer protection? You have the ultimate consumer protection, choice. Restricting choice won't solve issues with cabs.
- monk_e_boy 11y agoI wouldn't know anything about Uber if it weren't for all these protests.
- joosters 11y agoYou're posting on Hacker News, where there are (non-protest) Uber stories every day...
- monk_e_boy 11y agoThis may shock you, but I don't read every story on HN. Who are you to tell me what I do and don't know?
- sauere 11y agoEurope 2015
- mrbig4545 11y agoThe French will riot over anything.
- higherpurpose 11y agoExcept important stuff like passing a new surveillance law.
- kirk21 11y agoWhy work if you can riot?
- conradfr 11y agoWhat about other countries ? http://www.wsj.com/articles/tensions-erupt-as-uber-drivers-attacked-by-taxi-drivers-in-brussels-1427140080 http://www.wsj.com/articles/tensions-erupt-as-uber-drivers-a...
- mwill 11y agoRelated discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9776613 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9776613
- boothead 11y agoI took my wife to Paris last year. When I turned up a taxi tout (I assume for an un-licensed taxi) offered to get us to our hotel (about 6 km away) for 100 euro. When I demurred he kindly lowered the price to 60 euro. I ordered an uber, which picked us up in ~10 mins and the total cost was 20 euro. So while I sympathize with taxi drivers, they really can't expect consumers to not prefer something that's manifestly better for them. BTW in London, before uber a black cab might cost me £60-70 to get home if I'd missed a train. An uber now can be as little as £25, which is low enough that I can just not worry about the terribly unreliable and sparse trains and plan my trip home that way.
- anticon 11y agoYou get what you pay for. If you're happy to entrust your life into a random untrained uninsured stranger, then go ahead and get the cheaper unregulated taxi.
- boothead 11y agoI'm pretty sure that the taxi that was being touted for the first time was also unregulated, so it's extremely unclear here what 3x my money was going to get me. Quality of black cabs and mini-cabs in London in also wildly variable. At least with uber you can actually leave a bad review (I'm not sure what comes of those) but I get a response on bad reviews at least.
- anticon 11y agoNever had a bad black cab ride. I'd trust any black cab driver over software/GPS etc.
- boothead 11y agoAlmost every black cab ride I've ever had has been great - and they most certainly know how to get round London better than a newly minted uber driver with google maps. However if you've never had a black cab with the driver spouting racist/misogynist/anti immigration rhetoric they whole journey, then you haven't lived ;-)
- DickingAround 11y agoThey're going to be double-angry when self-driving cars take both of those jobs.
- anticon 11y agoPerhaps in 100 years some of the easiest roads will be driven by self driving cars. I doubt any of these drivers are too worried.
- olalonde 11y agoGoogle plans to make their self-driving car available to the public by 2020 [0]. Perhaps they aren't going to hit that deadline but I doubt they'll miss it by 80 years. [0] http://www.ibtimes.com/google-inc-says-self-driving-car-will-be-ready-2020-1784150 http://www.ibtimes.com/google-inc-says-self-driving-car-will...
- ninkendo 11y agoSelf driving cars are essentially a software project (and more) and I've never heard of a software project having an estimate that far out and ever being even close to making its deadline. My personal opinion is that self-driving cars that are reliable enough to literally not have a steering wheel will be perpetually a "few years away", similar to how we're always saying nuclear fusion or true AI is just a few decades off. It's like the 80/20 rule but more like 99/1... That last 1% of capabilities required to make cars truly driverless are going to take 99% of the effort.
- anticon 11y agoMaking them available in California isn't the same as making them available in a). Countries that have weather, and b). Countries that have curved roads. As another poster comments, it's as close as several other science fiction things that are always "A few years away!".
- emodendroket 11y agoGreat, they're saying that, but, on the other hand, they only operate them in a small area in Mountain View because the level of detail the things need to operate is just not there anywhere in the US. In addition, the driverless cars have trouble dealing with temporary road closures and the like -- the kind of stuff human drivers have to deal with regularly. It's not at all clear that this is going to be a practical technology anytime soon, despite all the hype. http://www.technologyreview.com/news/530276/hidden-obstacles-for-googles-self-driving-cars/ http://www.technologyreview.com/news/530276/hidden-obstacles... > Would you buy a self-driving car that couldn’t drive itself in 99 percent of the country? Or that knew nearly nothing about parking, couldn’t be taken out in snow or heavy rain, and would drive straight over a gaping pothole? > If your answer is yes, then check out the Google Self-Driving Car, model year 2014.
- hnsayzwhat 11y agoRight on! Down with Uber. Make them follow the same rules as taxis!
- spanishcow 11y agoUber is an unlawful business that tries to by-pass Labour law. If Uber model is imposed workers will be working for big companies without proper rights or protections. I want cheaper and better services but never at the cost of other people's rights. With time driverless cars will be the norm. Until then I want that the people that drive me home have as many rights as them deserve. (What will happen when machines are able to do all manual work is another more complex discussion)
- emodendroket 11y agoDon't forget that Uber are congesting the road, polluting, and going around without adequate insurance, all issues that affect even people who never use the service.
- briandear 11y agoSo are taxis. So is every other form of transport that uses a road. I never ride the bus but in Avignon, I get to wait behind long congested lines of buses clogging the ring road when I just want to get my daughter from her little school. I never ride those buses. Also your logical fallacy is a little silly: how does going around 'without insurance' harm people that don't use the service? That statement is just untrue. ALL drivers in France must have insurance.
- kuschku 11y agoActually, the insurance problem is more complex: Normal drivers insurance does not pay if you were transporting a stranger for-profit. That’s why you need a special insurance for that, which most uber X drivers do not have
- emodendroket 11y agoHow could it possibly be harmful to pedestrians or other drivers to have underinsured drivers on the road? Gee, I wonder.
- darkstar999 11y ago
- kaa2102 11y agoThis actually does present a dilemma for working class folks. The article indicates that taxi drivers have experienced a loss in income of 30-40%. I don't imagine French taxi drivers earn a whole lot of money. Moreover, an idea could be that the French taxi drivers could just switch over to Uber. The tax driver may be stuck if they have already paid a certain amount of a car, registration, etc. Also, they may not be able to make as much with Uber. Buzz Feed News estimated that US Uber drivers can make $34,164 per year. French laws may also include benefits for driving a taxi vs. being an independent contractor with no benefits with Uber. Services like AirBnB and Uber can be great for entrepreneurs, investors, part-time workers, and consumers. We should be reminded that disrupting industries sometimes creates losers in the working and middle class that don't have an easy way to switch jobs in some countries or economies.
- legulere 11y agoIt's actually more of a legal question. Uber only manages to work through lots of questionable tactics of which many are illegal: - Most of the uber drivers don't actually pay taxes - Most of the uber drivers only work for uber which makes the self-employment fictitious. This allows to disregard things like minimum wage and payments for social security. - Most of uber drivers don't have a permission for transporting people. This puts customers at risk. - Most of uber drivers don't have an insurance that covers transporting people commercially. All these apply even in the case where private taxi companies are allowed. Uber's business model is based on exploiting the drivers, disregarding safety regulations and dodging taxes.
- jdimov9 11y agoWho should be reminded? Why? If you mean "we entrepreneurs" - what exactly do you expect us to do about it? Again, why?
- Stately 11y agoBecause that's worked out sooooo well for taxi drivers in the rest of European cities...
- sunseb 11y agoHave a look at those images : http://www.spi0n.com/greve-taxis-vs-uber-paris/ http://www.spi0n.com/greve-taxis-vs-uber-paris/
- olivierduval 11y agoFrench Taxi drivers are knowned to be unfriendly and not quite honest, and lazy. They're trying to keep their business protected instead of trying to get better. Now, they even use violence against Uber-drivers & Uber-customers. BTW, they don't give a shit of their own customers... At the beginning, when Uber opened in France, I could understand their problem. But now, they just went to far: instead of being better to keep their business, they just want to keep their business by being the only players, leaving no choice to customers but to use them. And that's plain wrong for me... In fact, I think that I would support an action from Uber against Taxi syndicates & French government support, either in the street or in the European Court of Justice Disclosure: I'm a french parisian and never used Uber (yet) but used Taxi from time to time... ;)
- agumonkey 11y agoIt's a typical aggressive reaction when an old system is under threat. Easier to attack than to evolve. In time Uber will probably have to submit to adapted laws, while Taxis will trim fat, improve their service and behavior, and things will balance out.
- saiya-jin 11y agoyes but... as stated, current taxi drivers won't sweat a bit to actually improve their services, which are generally deemed as sub par to be polite. but they will go great lengths to hurt any sign of competition, even users who show interest in it. how much more rotten their behaviour must be for you to start caring about customers more than them? of course it's not black & white, but this industry is in grave need of disruption, and one is coming. i don't care about them any more than they do care about me, fair deal.
- agumonkey 11y agoI .. empathize with Taxis anyway, even though it's hard to justify violence of that kind (beatings, fires). They do suck a lot more than they should, like many many old businesses[1]. Don't forget the burden of being a legitimate business too, it's risky and costly. How would you feel if all of a sudden anybody can play in your field for free while you paid 100K, and have to comply to a lot of legislations for the same rights. [1] reminds me of Air France, it's easy to think RyanAir is better, but in reality AirFrance offer you a lot more. I believe Uber falls under the same issues, sure they're cheap, but they don't give any insurances. They did benefit from a nice technological mastery that made the service interface far better than the old system.
- jayess 11y agoI was in Paris in April and we used Uber twice. Both drivers were super friendly, attentive, and helpful. Neither spoke English, but we got by just fine. I was disappointed that there was no Uber in Rome as well.
- MichaelCrawford 11y agoA while back I found a grievous bug in CERNLIB, one that withoubt a doubt resulted in erroneous results in the physics journals. The day I blasted this news throughout every corner of the physics community, a CERN staffmember sent me a patch. "Here's what you need, but the guy who maintains that part of CERNLIB wont accept it because Im british and hes french." Dont Fuck With The French.
- redwood 11y agoLook there needs to be a French Uber for this to work. Simple as that. We can't take global revenue forever. It's not fair to these countries. Lucky for them, we're helping them innovate
- louithethrid 11y agoTaxi Drivers disrupted by Ueber disrupted by Google SelfDriving Carse disrupted by ... Ueber looks allready historic and they havent even won yet.