5 ms·

Why is Stack not Cabal?

152 points by mcbuilder 11y ago

Tehnix 11y ago
It is really great to see all the work being done focusing on deployment of Haskell applications. With stackage for a curated package list, and now stack for a better build tool a lot of things are coming together. FPComplete is really doing amazing work for the community, especially with not just going around fixing their own problems but actually putting out questionaries to identify what the community as a whole sees as the problem. I can't wait to see where the community goes in the next couple of years!
rnhmjoj 11y ago
I was well aware of the problems of cabal-install but I wasn't sure of what stack is exactly. These finally cleared the thing for me. Thank you.
- tpaksoy 11y ago
  Exactly. I've been doing some research on Haskell, but Cabal is making it quite difficult for me. I've been dealing with a lot of dependency version mismatches when using sandboxes... I'll definitely give Stack a try after reading this.
thameera 11y ago
For a new project, is ditching Cabal altogether and using Stack recommended?
- rhaps0dy 11y ago
  Well, you aren't ditching Cabal-the-spec anytime soon :) I didn't know about Stack before reading this, but it sounds very good. Cabal-install has always given me problems. I definitely recommend at least trying it out, and will do so myself.
- codygman 11y ago
  For a recent project I did: cabal init stack init stack build Then I wanted a newer version of persistent, so I opened up my stack.yaml file and added persistent 2.2 to the extra-deps section: extra-deps: - persistent-2.2 Then I was wondering how to make emacs haskell-mode work with it, and I saw this[0] in the stack repo: ((haskell-mode . ((haskell-indent-spaces . 4) (hindent-style . "johan-tibell") (haskell-process-type . ghci) (haskell-process-path-ghci . "stack") (haskell-process-args-ghci . ("ghci"))))) Now everything is working flawlessly and very fast. As a bonus Haskell-mode works correctly for projects I haven't moved to/tested with stack yet. 0: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/blob/master/.dir-locals.el https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/blob/master/.dir-...
  - kyllo 11y ago
    Same experience here--that .dir-locals.el was absolutely crucial. In case anyone is wondering how to turn on language pragmas with stack ghci in emacs, I did this for the project I'm working on, because I need OverloadedStrings turned on: ((haskell-mode . ((haskell-indent-spaces . 4) (hindent-style . "johan-tibell") (haskell-process-type . ghci) (haskell-process-path-ghci . "stack") (haskell-process-args-ghci . ("ghci" "--ghc-options" "-XOverloadedStrings")))))
- kyllo 11y ago
  Not yet if it's a Yesod project, because yesod devel is tightly coupled to cabal-install.
heavenlyhash 11y ago
Awesome. Great to see the "control the inputs, control the outputs; gain repeatability, gain control" mantra finally moving into the package management and dependency world. If Haskell's next generation of tooling lands hashes and built-in end-to-end integrity as a first class citizen, afaict that'll make Haskell be one of the first communities to really permanently address the "it built on tuesday" problem... and hopefully far from the last :)
rhizome31 11y ago
Great to see the cabal problem being addressed. It's the main reason I've given up on Haskell. I'm wondering, is there any plan to support installation of pre-compiled binaries with Stack? (Compiling Haskell libraries with all their dependencies can be quite slow.) Or is it what Nix is for? If so, can I use Nix along with the regular package management of my Linux distribution?
- akurilin 11y ago
  I'm sure this will soon be the next evolutionary step for something like stack or an add-on tool on top of it.
- chrisdew 11y ago
  Likewise, I'm now torn between Rust and Haskell as my "safe" language of choice. ("safe" as in - if it compiles, it runs correctly.) Rust's lifetimes are a bit annoying, its async IO story is woeful, but it does allow safe mutation. Haskell's more mature, IO is great, and it looks like cabal-hell may be ending, but it is a garbage-collected language.
  - kibwen 11y ago
    Have you seen the mio library for async IO in Rust? I haven't used it myself, but everyone that I've asked has had nothing but glowing praise for it (though it doesn't yet support Windows): https://github.com/carllerche/mio https://github.com/carllerche/mio
    - fjh 11y ago
      I've used mio and I also have nothing but praise for it, but it is a fairly thin abstraction over epoll/kqueue. That's certainly useful, but it's not nearly as nice or easy to use as the green threads that haskell gives you. (That being said, I think 'woeful' is a pretty strong word to describe the situation. Sure, Haskell is nicer in that regard, but most other languages aren't.)
  - lmm 11y ago
    GC should never be a "torn between" factor. Either you have a hard requirement that makes GC unusable, or you don't.

152 points by mcbuilder 11y ago

It is really great to see all the work being done focusing on deployment of Haskell applications. With stackage for a curated package list, and now stack for a better build tool a lot of things are coming together. FPComplete is really doing amazing work for the community, especially with not just going around fixing their own problems but actually putting out questionaries to identify what the community as a whole sees as the problem. I can't wait to see where the community goes in the next couple of years!

rnhmjoj 11y ago

I was well aware of the problems of cabal-install but I wasn't sure of what stack is exactly. These finally cleared the thing for me. Thank you.

tpaksoy 11y ago
Exactly. I've been doing some research on Haskell, but Cabal is making it quite difficult for me. I've been dealing with a lot of dependency version mismatches when using sandboxes... I'll definitely give Stack a try after reading this.

thameera 11y ago

For a new project, is ditching Cabal altogether and using Stack recommended?

rhaps0dy 11y ago
Well, you aren't ditching Cabal-the-spec anytime soon :) I didn't know about Stack before reading this, but it sounds very good. Cabal-install has always given me problems. I definitely recommend at least trying it out, and will do so myself.
codygman 11y ago
For a recent project I did: cabal init stack init stack build Then I wanted a newer version of persistent, so I opened up my stack.yaml file and added persistent 2.2 to the extra-deps section: extra-deps: - persistent-2.2 Then I was wondering how to make emacs haskell-mode work with it, and I saw this[0] in the stack repo: ((haskell-mode . ((haskell-indent-spaces . 4) (hindent-style . "johan-tibell") (haskell-process-type . ghci) (haskell-process-path-ghci . "stack") (haskell-process-args-ghci . ("ghci"))))) Now everything is working flawlessly and very fast. As a bonus Haskell-mode works correctly for projects I haven't moved to/tested with stack yet. 0: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/blob/master/.dir-locals.el https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/blob/master/.dir-...
- kyllo 11y ago
  Same experience here--that .dir-locals.el was absolutely crucial. In case anyone is wondering how to turn on language pragmas with stack ghci in emacs, I did this for the project I'm working on, because I need OverloadedStrings turned on: ((haskell-mode . ((haskell-indent-spaces . 4) (hindent-style . "johan-tibell") (haskell-process-type . ghci) (haskell-process-path-ghci . "stack") (haskell-process-args-ghci . ("ghci" "--ghc-options" "-XOverloadedStrings")))))
kyllo 11y ago
Not yet if it's a Yesod project, because yesod devel is tightly coupled to cabal-install.

heavenlyhash 11y ago

Awesome. Great to see the "control the inputs, control the outputs; gain repeatability, gain control" mantra finally moving into the package management and dependency world. If Haskell's next generation of tooling lands hashes and built-in end-to-end integrity as a first class citizen, afaict that'll make Haskell be one of the first communities to really permanently address the "it built on tuesday" problem... and hopefully far from the last :)

rhizome31 11y ago

Great to see the cabal problem being addressed. It's the main reason I've given up on Haskell. I'm wondering, is there any plan to support installation of pre-compiled binaries with Stack? (Compiling Haskell libraries with all their dependencies can be quite slow.) Or is it what Nix is for? If so, can I use Nix along with the regular package management of my Linux distribution?

akurilin 11y ago
I'm sure this will soon be the next evolutionary step for something like stack or an add-on tool on top of it.
chrisdew 11y ago
Likewise, I'm now torn between Rust and Haskell as my "safe" language of choice. ("safe" as in - if it compiles, it runs correctly.) Rust's lifetimes are a bit annoying, its async IO story is woeful, but it does allow safe mutation. Haskell's more mature, IO is great, and it looks like cabal-hell may be ending, but it is a garbage-collected language.
- kibwen 11y ago
  Have you seen the mio library for async IO in Rust? I haven't used it myself, but everyone that I've asked has had nothing but glowing praise for it (though it doesn't yet support Windows): https://github.com/carllerche/mio https://github.com/carllerche/mio
  - fjh 11y ago
    I've used mio and I also have nothing but praise for it, but it is a fairly thin abstraction over epoll/kqueue. That's certainly useful, but it's not nearly as nice or easy to use as the green threads that haskell gives you. (That being said, I think 'woeful' is a pretty strong word to describe the situation. Sure, Haskell is nicer in that regard, but most other languages aren't.)
- lmm 11y ago
  GC should never be a "torn between" factor. Either you have a hard requirement that makes GC unusable, or you don't.