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!Mars != !Space. Mars is a dusty, barren deathtrap of a rock that's at the bottom of a very deep hole. The only thing to do on Mars is to _be_ on Mars. It's no

!Mars != !Space. Mars is a dusty, barren deathtrap of a rock that's at the bottom of a very deep hole. The only thing to do on Mars is to _be_ on Mars. It's not (plausibly) terraformable, sustaining life there will obvious continuous and hugely expensive technical input, there are no resources there worth going there for, and once you've gone there, to get back you have to climb out of a hugely deep hole. Meanwhile the solar system is full of places that are easier to get to, more hospitable, more profitable, and which you can get away from. Asteroids. Comets. Ceres. The moon, even. Further afield, the rings of Jupiter and Saturn --- the radiation's a bit rough, but if you can survive there, you've got it made. Hell, if you're into planets, Venus is a better option. Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment? Mars is fascinating, and there should absolutely be a science station there eventually, but it's not colonisation material. I certainly don't think it should be a priority right at this moment. With our current state of the art, I believe the Moon to be a much better choice.

Numberwang 11y ago
"Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment?" Please expand on this.
- Numberwang 11y ago
  Found some info myself. https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Colonization_of_Venus https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Colonization_of_Venus
- nine_k 11y ago
  Venus has a very thick atmosphere. At the height of a few miles above surface, there are layers with room temperature and human-acceptable pressure. Of course, the atmosphere is still CO₂ with some nasties, so a gas mask is required. But a Star-Wars-esque floating city would be quite manageable there. You can use hydrogen for floating because there's not oxygen around, so no risk of a blast. NASA is already working on it: http://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-wants-to-build-a-floating-city-above-the-clouds-of-venus/ http://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-wants-to-build-a-floating-city...
  - david-given 11y ago
    50km up, actually. (Venus' atmosphere is scary thick.) And it's better than you think: the atmosphere there is largely carbon dioxide, which is denser than air; so you don't need hydrogen for bouyancy. You can use breathable air and live inside the balloons. The inside's at a slight overpressure, so any leakage will be outwards rather than inwards, and the pressure differential's pretty small so it's likely to be pretty unexciting. You're above the clouds, so there's plenty of sunlight. Luckily there's this really big surface to spread solar panels on; your balloon. Then you can electrically break down the carbon dioxide into oxygen. Or just use plants. What is it they like again? Oh, yeah, carbon dioxide... What you don't get is much in the way of heavy elements; light organics (CHON, mostly) can be extracted from the atmosphere, but that does solve your immediate life support issues. Metals you'll need to go to the surface for, which may be a little exciting, but is perfectly doable (by machine, preferably). You're probably better off building out of organically produced carbon fibre, i.e. wood. Venus really is one of the most hospitable planets in the solar system, after Earth. If you like planets, of course.
lisper 11y ago
> Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment? Nope, that's news to me. According to: http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/eoc/special_topics/teach/sp_climate_change/p_planet_temp.html http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/eoc/special_topics/teach/sp_clima... the minimum temperature on Venus is 870F, well above the melting point of lead. Do you know something that UCSD doesn't?
- aardvark179 11y ago
  They aren't on the ground.
- monk_e_boy 11y ago
  http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-wants-establish-floating-cloud-city-study-venus http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-wants-establish-floatin...
  - lisper 11y ago
    We're talking about colonization here, not exploration. That's not even a practical plan to make more living space here on earth, let alone on Venus.
    - yellowapple 11y ago
      It's actually not all that impractical. Venus' atmosphere is much more dense than Earth's; floating in it should be quite a bit easier.
      - lisper 11y ago
        > Venus' atmosphere is much more dense than Earth's Won't help: "The ships would float 50 kilometers (31 miles) above the planet’s surface. Here, there would be only one atmosphere of pressure, and the temperature would be a reasonable 75"C." 75 C is 160 F. Granted that's cool enough to keep water from boiling, but unless you're a tubeworm you're probably not going to be happy living there without air conditioning.
mixmastamyk 11y ago
Living on Venus won't save you from a future red-giant-phase Sol. Mars may not either, but it's a better bet.
- yellowapple 11y ago
  Perhaps not, but it gets humans used to the idea of traveling to and living in/on/etc. worlds that aren't exactly hospitable. Additionally, the sulfuric acid clouds in Venus' atmosphere might be useful for various industrial processes.
visarga 11y ago
> sustaining life there will obvious continuous and hugely expensive technical input Not if we send first our 3D printers and deep learning based robots that we are going to build soon. We just need to build a replicator and send it there to terraform for us.

Numberwang 11y ago

"Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment?" Please expand on this.

Numberwang 11y ago
Found some info myself. https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Colonization_of_Venus https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Colonization_of_Venus
nine_k 11y ago
Venus has a very thick atmosphere. At the height of a few miles above surface, there are layers with room temperature and human-acceptable pressure. Of course, the atmosphere is still CO₂ with some nasties, so a gas mask is required. But a Star-Wars-esque floating city would be quite manageable there. You can use hydrogen for floating because there's not oxygen around, so no risk of a blast. NASA is already working on it: http://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-wants-to-build-a-floating-city-above-the-clouds-of-venus/ http://www.cnet.com/news/nasa-wants-to-build-a-floating-city...
- david-given 11y ago
  50km up, actually. (Venus' atmosphere is scary thick.) And it's better than you think: the atmosphere there is largely carbon dioxide, which is denser than air; so you don't need hydrogen for bouyancy. You can use breathable air and live inside the balloons. The inside's at a slight overpressure, so any leakage will be outwards rather than inwards, and the pressure differential's pretty small so it's likely to be pretty unexciting. You're above the clouds, so there's plenty of sunlight. Luckily there's this really big surface to spread solar panels on; your balloon. Then you can electrically break down the carbon dioxide into oxygen. Or just use plants. What is it they like again? Oh, yeah, carbon dioxide... What you don't get is much in the way of heavy elements; light organics (CHON, mostly) can be extracted from the atmosphere, but that does solve your immediate life support issues. Metals you'll need to go to the surface for, which may be a little exciting, but is perfectly doable (by machine, preferably). You're probably better off building out of organically produced carbon fibre, i.e. wood. Venus really is one of the most hospitable planets in the solar system, after Earth. If you like planets, of course.

lisper 11y ago

> Did you know that there are parts of Venus which are a shirt-sleeve (and breathing mask) environment? Nope, that's news to me. According to: http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/eoc/special_topics/teach/sp_climate_change/p_planet_temp.html http://earthguide.ucsd.edu/eoc/special_topics/teach/sp_clima... the minimum temperature on Venus is 870F, well above the melting point of lead. Do you know something that UCSD doesn't?

aardvark179 11y ago
They aren't on the ground.
monk_e_boy 11y ago
http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-wants-establish-floating-cloud-city-study-venus http://www.iflscience.com/space/nasa-wants-establish-floatin...
- lisper 11y ago
  We're talking about colonization here, not exploration. That's not even a practical plan to make more living space here on earth, let alone on Venus.
  - yellowapple 11y ago
    It's actually not all that impractical. Venus' atmosphere is much more dense than Earth's; floating in it should be quite a bit easier.
    - lisper 11y ago
      > Venus' atmosphere is much more dense than Earth's Won't help: "The ships would float 50 kilometers (31 miles) above the planet’s surface. Here, there would be only one atmosphere of pressure, and the temperature would be a reasonable 75"C." 75 C is 160 F. Granted that's cool enough to keep water from boiling, but unless you're a tubeworm you're probably not going to be happy living there without air conditioning.

mixmastamyk 11y ago

Living on Venus won't save you from a future red-giant-phase Sol. Mars may not either, but it's a better bet.

yellowapple 11y ago
Perhaps not, but it gets humans used to the idea of traveling to and living in/on/etc. worlds that aren't exactly hospitable. Additionally, the sulfuric acid clouds in Venus' atmosphere might be useful for various industrial processes.

visarga 11y ago

> sustaining life there will obvious continuous and hugely expensive technical input Not if we send first our 3D printers and deep learning based robots that we are going to build soon. We just need to build a replicator and send it there to terraform for us.