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The Famine made Ireland "Irish" in the sense that we understand it today. The famine caused people to become more pious in their Catholicism, even more impoveri

by s_dev 11y ago

The Famine made Ireland "Irish" in the sense that we understand it today. The famine caused people to become more pious in their Catholicism, even more impoverished and detest the British even more than what they previously did. It probably was the single most important factor in shaping modern Ireland. Many here are probably aware that Ireland had in 1845 a population of 9 Million but only 6 Million today (all Island pop). The entirety of the UK at the time had a population of 22 Million people. This means the Britain (Scotland, England and Wales) was only 25% bigger than Ireland at that time which is completely different today with the UK having >60 Million people and Ireland (Republic) having 4.5 Million. Ireland had a similar agricultural output compared to Britain which is at least three time larger. If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million. However it did happen and alternate realities are hard to predict.

kryptiskt 11y ago
> If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million. However it did happen and alternate realities are hard to predict. In a way it has, there are that many with Irish ancestry in America, not strange as emigration there cost Ireland much more people than the famine.
- pyre 11y ago
  Wasn't one of the forces dictating this migration the famine itself?
guard-of-terra 11y ago
"If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million" Would you really want to become Bangladesh? 30 Million seems an awfully high number for a country of such size and latitude.
- jameshart 11y ago
  If Ireland had similar population density to Southeast England, it would have a population of around 39 million.
  - guard-of-terra 11y ago
    England has forests, nature reserves, fjords elsewhere. That's why this region can be so dense? Why would you want to build up everything? Where's the gain I wonder?
    - joeyo 11y ago
      > England has forests Ireland had forests too. Where are they now? Mostly in English castles.
    - arethuza 11y ago
      "fjords elsewhere" Fjords in England? Where?
    - jameshart 11y ago
      Setting questionable English 'fjords' aside, the point isn't that it would be desirable to have a population of 30 million in Ireland, but that it would be possible, without having the population density (and presumably poverty) of Bangladesh. You asked how a small island in the north atlantic could sustain more than 30 million people - well, South East England has a population density of about 1200 people per square mile, at a similar latitude. Transplant that same population density to Ireland and you'd fit 39 million people. So, if you want to know what an Ireland with 30 million people in it would look like, don't imagine Bangladesh, think of Southeast England. And Southeast England is still considered a pretty beautiful, green part of the world. It contains the South Downs and New Forest national parks, the Chiltern hills, and about 60% of the land in the region is actively farmed. Of course, in the middle of it you've got London, which accounts for the overall density. So yes, a populated Ireland would be different; Dublin and Belfast would be vastly different cities; - but it wouldn't have stopped being the emerald isle if in an alternate history its population had reached 30m.
- lagadu 11y ago
  If Ireland had the population density of the Netherlands, they'd have 34m people. (Ireland ~73.5/km^2 density and ~84k km^2 area; Netherlands 407/km^2 density and ~41k km^2 area). For reference Bangladesh sits at just above 1000/km^2 density.
WildUtah 11y ago
Nine million on Ireland in 1845?! They tell us the famine was caused by monoculture; they tell us it was a fungus; they tell us it was English land and farm policy; they tell us it was inequality; they tell us it was import quotas. But they never mention that Ireland was horribly overcrowded. Nine million is jam packed horror. At six million today, Ireland should be closed to immigration and paying naturalized Eastern Europeans and North Africans to give up citizenship and leave. Even six million is dangerously overpopulated. Thirty million is pure nightmare.
- lagadu 11y ago
  ... Ireland has less than a fifth of the population density the Netherlands has. They don't particularly strike me as a "jam packed horror".
  - WildUtah 11y ago
    You're talking about a country so insanely crowded that they actually manufacture land out of the sea just to squeeze themselves in. In fact, they're famous for it because it's so awful and crazy. There's significant danger that rising oceans and a major storm could kill millions. That sounds like horror to just about everyone. And Netherlands has adjacent countries not so dense as itself with forests and open space to adjourn to on weekends for sanity. Ireland is an island.
    - eropple 11y ago
      I just spent a fantastic vacation in Ireland, traveling between Dublin, Cork, and Galway by car--which meant a lot of narrow but very well-kept roads between many tiny towns. The idea that double, even triple, the population of Ireland would somehow not have "forests and open space to adjourn to" is...well...it's interesting. Wait, did I say interesting? I meant "horse manure". That is an empty country, with plenty of room and remarkably little need for the sort of xenophobia you've espoused in this thread (a xenophobia that no one I met in Ireland seemed into, either!). And I don't think HN needs it, either.

by s_dev 11y ago

kryptiskt 11y ago

> If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million. However it did happen and alternate realities are hard to predict. In a way it has, there are that many with Irish ancestry in America, not strange as emigration there cost Ireland much more people than the famine.

pyre 11y ago
Wasn't one of the forces dictating this migration the famine itself?

guard-of-terra 11y ago

"If the famine didn't happen Ireland could easily have a population of over 30 Million" Would you really want to become Bangladesh? 30 Million seems an awfully high number for a country of such size and latitude.

jameshart 11y ago
If Ireland had similar population density to Southeast England, it would have a population of around 39 million.
- guard-of-terra 11y ago
  England has forests, nature reserves, fjords elsewhere. That's why this region can be so dense? Why would you want to build up everything? Where's the gain I wonder?
  - joeyo 11y ago
    > England has forests Ireland had forests too. Where are they now? Mostly in English castles.
  - arethuza 11y ago
    "fjords elsewhere" Fjords in England? Where?
  - jameshart 11y ago
    Setting questionable English 'fjords' aside, the point isn't that it would be desirable to have a population of 30 million in Ireland, but that it would be possible, without having the population density (and presumably poverty) of Bangladesh. You asked how a small island in the north atlantic could sustain more than 30 million people - well, South East England has a population density of about 1200 people per square mile, at a similar latitude. Transplant that same population density to Ireland and you'd fit 39 million people. So, if you want to know what an Ireland with 30 million people in it would look like, don't imagine Bangladesh, think of Southeast England. And Southeast England is still considered a pretty beautiful, green part of the world. It contains the South Downs and New Forest national parks, the Chiltern hills, and about 60% of the land in the region is actively farmed. Of course, in the middle of it you've got London, which accounts for the overall density. So yes, a populated Ireland would be different; Dublin and Belfast would be vastly different cities; - but it wouldn't have stopped being the emerald isle if in an alternate history its population had reached 30m.
lagadu 11y ago
If Ireland had the population density of the Netherlands, they'd have 34m people. (Ireland ~73.5/km^2 density and ~84k km^2 area; Netherlands 407/km^2 density and ~41k km^2 area). For reference Bangladesh sits at just above 1000/km^2 density.

WildUtah 11y ago

Nine million on Ireland in 1845?! They tell us the famine was caused by monoculture; they tell us it was a fungus; they tell us it was English land and farm policy; they tell us it was inequality; they tell us it was import quotas. But they never mention that Ireland was horribly overcrowded. Nine million is jam packed horror. At six million today, Ireland should be closed to immigration and paying naturalized Eastern Europeans and North Africans to give up citizenship and leave. Even six million is dangerously overpopulated. Thirty million is pure nightmare.

lagadu 11y ago
... Ireland has less than a fifth of the population density the Netherlands has. They don't particularly strike me as a "jam packed horror".
- WildUtah 11y ago
  You're talking about a country so insanely crowded that they actually manufacture land out of the sea just to squeeze themselves in. In fact, they're famous for it because it's so awful and crazy. There's significant danger that rising oceans and a major storm could kill millions. That sounds like horror to just about everyone. And Netherlands has adjacent countries not so dense as itself with forests and open space to adjourn to on weekends for sanity. Ireland is an island.
  - eropple 11y ago
    I just spent a fantastic vacation in Ireland, traveling between Dublin, Cork, and Galway by car--which meant a lot of narrow but very well-kept roads between many tiny towns. The idea that double, even triple, the population of Ireland would somehow not have "forests and open space to adjourn to" is...well...it's interesting. Wait, did I say interesting? I meant "horse manure". That is an empty country, with plenty of room and remarkably little need for the sort of xenophobia you've espoused in this thread (a xenophobia that no one I met in Ireland seemed into, either!). And I don't think HN needs it, either.