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Jobstart – Personalized, expert guidance to land your next software job
- ztratar 11y agoWoah -- wasn't expecting the quick upvotes! :) Creator here (shamefully submitted myself, haha). Happy to answer any/all questions or ramble on and on about the problem. We basically think there needs to be a legitimately trustworthy service out there. Something that acts more like a a career coach instead of a position spammer. Something that understands your needs and specific situation. Along the lines of "doing things that don't scale", we're completely human powered but technology assisted. There are a lot of things that are involved with career coaching or recruiting that are simply tedious -- we automate them away so we can better focus on relationships.
- KnightHawk3 11y agoWhat's your pricing? or am I missing something?
- ztratar 11y agoRight now we're offering the service for free. We make deals (recruiting contracts) with companies who really want first dibs on top talent. When a candidate comes through, we'll discuss all their options, but mention that we also work with some companies and talk about those companies as well. If they'd like an intro, awesome! If not, totally cool. We're sacrificing potential revenue to build the most trustworthy brand. The economics of recruiting let us do that... just an insane market right now.
- sageabilly 11y agoDo you have women on your panel of experts, and if not do you have plans to add women to your panel of experts? Asking not because "OMG MORE WOMEN IN TECH" but because the experience of being a woman trying to navigate a tech job is going to be different than a man's experience, so I would have more confidence in signing up for/recommending your service if I knew it catered more towards my specific demographic. Also, what's your geographical range of companies you're working with? Companies all over the US? Only SV? Only West Coast? Worldwide?
- ztratar 11y agoWe have multiple women in our expert network. I should have highlighted them... doh. We'd love more! https://jobstart.co/experts https://jobstart.co/experts This was a pivot -- we started off as a mentorship platform, so we're not actively using all of our expert pool at this time. After realizing the nuances of mentorship were making us solve the mentorship problem instead of the job placement problem, we moved onwards. Fun fact: we didn't have any female experts until we had about 30 male experts. But that changed quickly! The first one liked helping out so much she personally invited all of her friends, and all the sudden we were nearly 50/50 for short while. :D We have contracts with mostly Silicon Valley startups, but there are a couple in there from NYC and even Georgia. The fact that we don't force our candidates down our own funnel though, and will help them attain a job anywhere, is our real uniqueness.
- abathur 11y ago> We have multiple women in our expert network. I should have highlighted them... doh. We'd love more! https://jobstart.co/experts https://jobstart.co/experts Getting a good candidate:expert match sounds integral to your model, so it may be useful to have a process for leveraging your expert network to review the pairings (including the advice they produce and candidate feedback) to identify places where the coaches may need coaching, or the fitting process may be able to improve.
- empalms 11y agoBeing that you are based in SF, do you think that you are equipped to provide services to job seekers in other cities (i.e. Austin, NYC, Boston, Raleigh, or Seattle)?
- ztratar 11y agoWe have experts in other cities, but are admittedly going to take an SF-first approach for the next couple months. Solid question.
- chrisdbaldwin 11y agoAre you willing to coach remotely, or only people you can meet face-to-face in SF?
- ztratar 11y agoCoaching remotely works for us!
- thirdtruck 11y agoAre you hiring? While I'm hunting for tech work in NY even now, but have had a frustrating enough experience that I'm open to just tackling the problem directly.
- ztratar 11y agoEmail me -> zach@jobstart.co and we'll talk.
- mtrn 11y agoI'm in Europe - are you US-only?
- edw519 11y agoThanks Zach for doing this (both starting the company and coming here to Hacker News to answer questions). Based upon what you're seeing: 1. Please rank these in order of importance: - technical skill in one (or few) technologies - broad technical skills - years of experience - raw smarts & ability to learn - user/customer domain knowledge - soft skills (project mgmt, systems analysis, etc.) - cultural fit - attitude & determination 2. What % of opportunities are in large companies vs. start-ups? 3. What % of a "typical" programmer's energy should be spent presenting themselves better vs. actually getting better? 4. What makes your coaches/experts so special? Do they have last names? Nice concept. Best wishes to you and all your candidates.
- ztratar 11y ago1. The importance there depends on the company. This is why we take a human-oriented approach, instead of just building a marketplace. We can understand the nuances of what different employers want better. Data models will follow, but we're hand picking the points to start. 2. Remember we're open to helping you get anywhere. We've placed people at both startups and large companies already, but most of our contracts are with startups. Large companies don't do recruiting deals unless you're pumping them huge numbers or giving some crazy insightful data. 3. This depends on the programmer. I think, unfortunately, a lot of getting the right job is knowing how to present yourself better. In addition, I think most programmers already know how to get better at programming, but few learn the tricks to land more interviews and get more offers. 4. The status quo is pretty terrible. I like what some of the new companies are doing (Triplebyte for example), but recruiters are still the predominant factor in hiring. Some of them are good, but most of them... nope. Our coaches are all engineers. Our experts are all engineers. Our coaches have a full-time job -- that job is to understand the job market, understand the candidates they work with, and help them out however they see fit. I'll also mention that since we're still only 3 people, we, the founders are also doing a large portion of the coaching. Gotta love startup life!
- edw519 11y agoThanks for the good quick answers. Whenever you reach the point when you can use the point of view of a non-SV, non-tech industry programmer with heavy enterprise & SMB experience, let me know how I can help. Contact info in profile.
- samgnesin 11y agoCongrats on the beta launch Zach! Cheers from a fellow UIUCer :)
- coherentpony 11y agoYour site jobstart.co has 6 trackers that are invading my privacy. Here are the URLs they hit: s7.addthis.com stats.g.doubleclick.net s-static.ak.facebook.com cdn.optimizely.com 2762420311.log.optimizely.com cdn.segment.com
- ztratar 11y agoSorry to hear your perspective on that. 1) Addthis is what we use for sharing. It's helped us a lot. 2) Google analytics puts in doubleclick. 3) Facebook sharing... yup. 4) We're currently running an A/B test with Optimizely. 5) Segment.io is a great analytics tool. I'd recommend all the above services. That's my opinion on the above!
- sp332 11y agoThe trouble with the FB button is that is lets FB track you just by visiting the page, even if you don't click on the button. You could use a non-JS version of the button, or use a "two-click" button that doesn't load scripts from FB until the user is ready to share something.
- TheLoneWolfling 11y agoThis answers a reason for why you have them. However, the point remains. They all do user tracking.
- jtfairbank 11y agoAlmost every company with a half decent optimization strategy will use similar sites to measure interactions and categorize users. Most of these measurements are things that a site could do on its own (like analyzing how effective a call to action is) but it makes sense time and cost wise to outsource to an expert. If you're worried about this- use an adblocker or don't go to corporate sites.
- eosrei 11y agoInstall Ghostery to block these and other trackers. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/ghostery/ https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ghostery/mlomiejdfkolichcflejclcbmpeaniij https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/ghostery/mlomiejdf...
- thisisit 11y agoNot sure if it has been asked before but is it US centric or you guys looking to expand into other markets too?
- asxna 11y agoHey Zach, Creator of InterviewBit here, we are doing something similar, however relatively less human powered, would love to hear your thoughts about what we are doing at InterviewBit.com Cheers!
- KZeillmann 11y agoLooks like you're based in SF. Do you primarily work with West coast based companies? Because I love where I live right now (unwilling to relocate atm), and that limits my options quite a bit.
- ryandrake 11y agoFor the salary negotiations, you take 20% of the difference. What do you do? Do you wait for the candidate to get an offer, then actually go talk to HR at the company on their behalf, or do you simply coach and tell them "Hey ask for $XX,XXX more!"
- scast 11y agoI was looking into this. Sadly it requires that I provide a LinkedIn profile which I don't have.
- ztratar 11y agoActually not a requirement -- that's why we asked for email first. :) We don't message it, but the last two fields are optional. Truth is we won't be able to handle every candidate that comes through yet so we're working in batches. The more information we have on people, the more we can prioritize them. That being said, I'd love to chat -> zach@jobstart.co. I'll make sure you don't fall through the cracks.
- pests 11y agoI too do not have a LinkedIn account. The form does in fact error, but you are saying my email has still been collected anyways? Just wanted to clarify! Thanks.
- pests 11y agoJust wanted to comment that this also prevents us from submitting anything in the "WHAT DO YOU WANT IN YOUR NEXT ROLE?" box.
- dotBen 11y agoAs a hiring manager, I use LinkedIn either to primarily source engineers or to validate the experience of an engineer that I found via some other means (open source project, coding event, etc). To some extent, if you don't have a LinkedIn you don't really exist within the job market - which is fine I guess if you never intend to change jobs but might be something you do want to do some day :) I'm actually curious why you wouldn't have a LinkedIn?
- brianpan 11y agoI have considered moving away from LinkedIn and designing an online resume. LinkedIn is not perfect, there are plenty of reasons you might not want to use it. Besides finding engineers, what does LinkedIn provide you as a hiring manager that a resume would not? (Assuming an online resume or a pdf has links to company information, references, etc.) I can't imagine anyone actually puts stock in LinkedIn "endorsements" or "recommendations".
- suttree 11y agoVery cool - small thing, there's a spello in the footer "We have helped place candidates at top technoogy companies and startups." Bigger thing, software jobs are pretty much all jobs, or do you mean tech jobs? Either way I like it, nice one!
- ztratar 11y agoSnap -- will be in the next push. We can help people understand the skills for all ranges of software jobs, but prioritize people looking in tech.
- schneidmaster 11y agoAnother typo - "Thus, if you're base offer is $100k" - should be "your" :)
- Jemaclus 11y agoAlso, "where you're at" is poor grammar. You could simply say "where you are." In general, you should probably avoid contractions (say "you are" instead of "you're"). Good luck!
- josemagana 11y agoIs this service useful for students seeking summer internships?
- ztratar 11y agoWe actually existed entirely for students for the past 10 months, but we'll admittedly prioritize those seeking full-time positions.
- felipegalvao 11y agoAre you guys willing to coach job seekers from other countries (if they have the right skills, of course)? Or is this US exclusive?
- ztratar 11y agoWe're not against it, but by the looks of it we're going to prioritize people who are either 1) citizens or 2) can get work visas already.
- rickr 11y agoInteresting idea! Some UI feedback - the 'I agree/disagree' buttons on your mission component are kind of weird. I clicked on both just to see what would happen. I think the CTA to sign up as an expert was a bit hard to find - perhaps due to the colors? I'm also not sure why I would want to become an 'expert'. What's in it for me?
- ztratar 11y agoThanks for the feedback, Rick! The "what's in it for me" question is a good one. While very unintuitive, we've had no problem signing people up who are simply helpful types. There's a large population out there of talented people who enjoy helping others and this is the most impactful, time efficient way to do it. At first we were thinking about offering money, but the economics of the model don't really work out. No matter what we do, since we're not guaranteed money, we can't guarantee experts money. Under that situation, we could offer them on average less than $60 an hour... at which point 1) it feels like work and 2) the people who become experts usually make 3x that. After we worked on this for months, it turned out the best system was simply a volunteer system. Strange, eh?
- fweespeech 11y agoI think is awesome, you really should have a mailing list for when you go national tho in addition to the "SF batch sign up" :P
- ztratar 11y agoWho said this batch signup is only for SF? ;)
- veeti 11y agoThe thin text is almost unreadable on Linux. https://i.imgur.com/XFTitdd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/XFTitdd.jpg
- BinaryIdiot 11y agoThat's because the site is attempting to load the font over http and the site is hosted on https so I'm guessing your browser is blocking that. It uses the Google Lato font for that text
- ztratar 11y agoJust pushed the fix!
- fsk 11y agoIf it's free for candidates, how do you make money?
- ztratar 11y agoWe have contracts with a certain number of companies and understand their needs the best. When we see a candidate come through who is a shoe-in for a company on that list, we'll let the candidate know that's an opportunity for them but not pressure it. If they'd like to chat with the company, we'll make the intro. If not, cool. Our model prioritized creating a trustworthy brand over everything else. Everything. Including revenue at this point. We'd much rather be the first place candidates think about heading when starting their job search than converting 20% more inbound.
- fsk 11y agoHow much of a time commitment is it for the candidate? I.e. are you expecting a 20 hour coding test?
- sageabilly 11y agoAnother question, are you guys aimed at programmers only or are you placing people who work in all aspects of software? I'm a business analyst/strategist in the tech sector but not a programmer- is that a position that you'd be able to help place?
- ztratar 11y agoAh, good question. Programmers for now -- sorry. Our goal is to eventually scale the coaching model so it's financially sensible to expand into other positions and eventually industries. The expert network is a big piece of that!
- sageabilly 11y agoCool, thanks for the reply!
- shruzberi 11y agoDoes Jobstart offer guidance and refer candidates who don't have permit to work in the US?
- ztratar 11y agoWe have a focus on the US.
- BinaryIdiot 11y agoThis is a neat idea! Btw OP looks like you're serving the Google Lato font over HTTP while your site is coming over HTTPS; I think this is causing some of the issues folks are having not being able to see the text very well.
- dilatedmind 11y agohow important is the content of our linkedin while applying, should I be filling mine out to increase my chances of being selected?
- ztratar 11y agoI'd fill it out, yes -- we weren't expecting this high of traffic so profiles that are blank are likely to get skimmed over (unfortunately).
- codingdave 11y ago"We work with top companies who pay us to specially refer them the best candidates. If we think you're good enough, we'll recommend them as a company for you to check out." This sounds like a new twist on the same old recruiter workflow. Is that an unfair judgment? Also, what if you don't think we are good enough? Do you still offer help?
- ztratar 11y ago1. New twist on old recruiter workflow -- 100% correct. Making money sort of demands you fit into old models at least a little bit. Once we gain more traction, we can try out more daring things. Up until now, though, the main question was "do people want coaching?". We've found that answer. :) 2. If you're not good enough for those companies, we'll figure out why and still help you out. Granted, we won't help you for months and months -- but we're not going to leave you hanging there. We think helping everyone is going to build a strong brand and service.
- grayfox 11y agoHey guys! Cool idea. Sounds like a great fit for my partner. Do you work with remote workers, non-US citizens?
- subrat_rout 11y agoAre you guys willing to coach to self-taught programmers(who do not have a comp sc. degree) for the entry level jobs? Or you are focused on taking experienced candidates and groom them for more senior level position?
- ztratar 11y agoAbsolutely willing to take self-taught programmers. In fact, in our experience thus far, we've found self-taught people tend to get better results when coached/mentored.
- hecontreraso 11y agoDo you accept overseas candidates? I would like to relocate to USA or to take a remote developer job
- subrat_rout 11y agoI am a self-taught programmer but I find hard to crack the entry level full stack developer position in SF bay area. Almost all startups are looking for a senior developer (at least 3-4 years experience). So I am in a catch 22. Do you guys have plan to coach newbie developer for junior level position?
- wyclif 11y agoI ran into this same problem: everybody only seems to want senior talent. There's a chasm between intermediate and "unicorn" that needs to be bridged. I hope these guys can improve that situation. It's tough to find good mentoring when you're a n00b to intermediate.
- hecontreraso 11y agoSame question here
- fecak 11y agoJobstart works with job seekers to help them get hired, and gets paid when their recruiting clients hire their candidates. Sometimes Jobstart's candidates get jobs at non-clients, and Jobstart doesn't get paid. Jobstart can help negotiate offers, for which they charge the candidate 20% of the difference between original and accepted offer. I'm an independent agency recruiter, and it sounds a lot like what I do. I don't charge candidates for negotiating services though. I agree that most recruiters aren't very good at what they are supposed to do. Positioning yourselves as coaches is a marketing strategy to differentiate from those recruiters, but what you are doing is basically the same thing as what a good (both skilled and 'benevolent') recruiter might do, no?
- ztratar 11y agoHey there! Great questions. 1) All of our coaches are experienced engineers. 2) We're much more involved than recruiters. We're going to run you through in-house interview gauntlets if that's what you want and need (detailed feedback included). We'll rip apart your resume and start from scratch if that's a smart thing to do. I've found 0% of the recruiters I've talked to can do those things effectively -- perhaps you're different, but we've never met. :] 3) We help you network. 4) We'll actively help you look at companies outside our recruiting contract scope. We'll recommend companies that we don't work with. This is not a "sometimes candidates get jobs at non-clients" sort of thing. This is more of a "let's put you first, no matter what" sort of thing.
- fecak 11y agoBeing experienced engineers is helpful. Whether or not you're "much more involved" than recruiters probably depends on the recruiter, but running multiple interviews internally with coaches is definitely a worthwhile service. Most experienced recruiters can rip apart a resume and are usually willing to help make changes (specifically when it's for their own client). I've seen recruiters that claim ownership of the resume they modify for their candidates, which seems tacky. I understand that you will recommend companies that you don't work with, although your business model has all the same incentives that the traditional contingency recruiting model has. You have two ways of making money. 1 - Getting paid when a candidate accepts a job at your client (standard contingency model). 2 - 20% (of difference) paid by candidate for negotiation You can recommend candidates to companies you don't work with, and you can make money off these deals by providing a negotiation service. I respect that you are trying to provide a superior service to what most recruiters are providing. It's a sad state for the recruiting industry when companies are reluctant to even use the term "recruiting". I'm as critical of the recruiting industry as anyone, so I do wish you well.
- desireco42 11y agoThis is excellent idea. At least how I understand it. Recruiters such badly and we have very little reason to work with them. This would provide better value proposition and make devs more motivated to work with them.
- hbharadwaj 11y agoIs there any focus on Product Management or is this just Dev jobs?
- ztratar 11y agoJust dev jobs for now! Once we figure out how to scale coaching to a significant degree, we'll tackle other areas. :)
- ztratar 11y agoIf your company is hiring engineers, email us team@jobstart.co
- javadi82 11y agoI know this beats the very premise of your product - "personalized" guidance but thought I would ask anyway. How open are you to sharing general guidelines (that are insightful and not already available everywhere) ? It would also help if you could ask the people who are successfully placed to write their learnings along the process. Similar to how the Insight data engineering fellow and others at coding schools share what they learnt/built. Eg: http://insightdataengineering.com/blog/mapmycab.html http://insightdataengineering.com/blog/mapmycab.html
- ztratar 11y agoWe'll eventually run an entire blog series around general guidelines. :)
- gusmd 11y agoAwesome! Are you willing to help someone from a classic engineering background transition to development and getting a more entry-level job? Or are your focus on already experienced developers working in the industry? Thanks!
- ztratar 11y agoWe're open to both. We really want candidates who are going to push themselves and learn.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- lk145 11y agoDo you have any testimonials from engineers who have been placed with help from Jobstart?
- subrat_rout 11y agoI am a self-taught programmer but I find hard to crack the entry level full stack developer position in SF bay area. Almost all startups are looking for a senior developer (at least 3-4 years experience). So I am in a catch 22. Do you guys have plan to coach newbie developer for junior level position?
- wyclif 11y agoHeads up: when scrolling down, the signup element overlaps some of the body text in the latest Chrome on OS X.
- soham 11y agoHey Zach, great start. Founder of http://InterviewKickstart.com http://InterviewKickstart.com here. We do something similar, but with two differences: 1. We do it from a bootcamp angle. Candidates join us for rigorous (re)training in CS fundamentals. 2. Our revenue comes from candidates and not from companies. That helps us stay on candidates' side. Let's grab coffee some day? We're in South Bay.
- dblock 11y agoI think this is the first time in a long time that I see a startup that aims to solve the hiring problem with something other than technology (with people), so my sincere congratulations. As a CTO of a successful startup, I would sign up as an expert if you were a non-profit in a heartbeat - and I don't mean that you don't charge your clients, just a B corp or something that aims to solve this problem without getting rich. If you are successful and have a solid network that works, you will still prioritize paying clients over non-paying ones, no-matter how hard you try not to. Convince me otherwise?
- soham 11y agoHi there, At http://InterviewKickstart.com http://InterviewKickstart.com, we're trying something similar, but from the other size viz. Candidates. Our hypothesis is, that if someone showed candidates how to prepare rigorously for interviews, how good engineers actually do things, and how to think about things the right way, then they'd avoid making several mistakes in interviews and at work. We're taking a very hands-on detailed human approach. Because interviews are more like a date, than they are like a test.
- gwbas1c 11y agoI agree that the hiring process is broken; but when I look at this, it just comes across as ordinary recruiting with some (snaps fingers) pizazz. How do you help the hiring companies choose the right candidates? In my experience, the best recruiters are those who bring in ideal candidates without being pushy or overselling. Do you have some objective way of ranking candidates? Do you filter out unqualified candidates? (Snaps fingers) PiZZaZZZ!
- ztratar 11y agoHaha, Pizzzaz! I think there's a spectrum when it comes to recruiting -- some recruiters are good at their job, no doubt, but the majority of people get left behind by the industry. Helping people become better versions of themselves simply isn't a value recruiting firms hold dear. The best recruiters, as you said, take already ideal candidates and figure out how to sell them on their companies in an authentic way. We flip the model around and start with the candidate, no matter where they're at. That's not just a "snap fingers pizzazz" - that's changing the core process. We'll build tools internally to rank candidates and companies eventually, but right now it's goodm old-fashioned human power! (We have a couple tools already built, but nothing game changing is live)
- skallung 11y agoThis looks cool! Do you guys only coaching for junior/senior positions or internships as well?
- ztratar 11y agoCoaching for full-time positions only. Junior/senior included.
- kartikkumar 11y agoLooks like a neat service. Just as a point of information, should I assume if I don't get a response that my submission has been rejected? Would be nice to get a replying if submissions are not taken into consideration just to know not to wait. Good luck with expanding the service to other cities!
- ztratar 11y agoThanks! No we just haven't sent out emails yet. We should have had an automated message upon signup but didn't put it in (stupidly). We're adding the automated message and will send updates to everyone tonight.
- kartikkumar 11y agoThanks! Yea wasn't sure if there was an automated message I should have received after signup. Anyway, looking forward to hearing back!
- donjh 11y agoCongrats on the pivot and launch, Zach!
- utuxia 11y agoIf you want to work remotely: http://offsite.careers http://offsite.careers
- asimpletune 11y agoIs having a LinkedIn required?
- stellographer 11y agoHaha, that mission statement though! "empower all people," "help they deserve," "status quo is unacceptable," "they have had decades to find a solution to help the masses. They have failed," "facilitate this _movement_," "increase the rate of innovation across the world"... Who do you think you are? MLK? You're a fancy-pants version of "Goodwill" that literally caters to just the 1%, get over it.
- ztratar 11y agoI do believe everything that is written there. If you want to take it as inflated or egotistical, go ahead -- that's your right. If you understand the mission and what we're trying to do here though, we're really aiming to help everyone. Starting with software is simply a foothold that works when you're an early stage startup. It lets us focus the business and run the model against an industry that moves so ridiculously fast, we are forced to keep up. As we can build tech to scale coaching, we'd like to achieve price points low enough to help everyone. That's the plan at least. Not over it! Will keep dreaming!
- sebastianconcpt 11y agoIt's a good take. Super healthy. I hope you can go far
- omouse 11y agoSeems you're taking the 10X approach and focusing on full-time jobs instead of freelance/per-project jobs. I like it! Too bad about the location restriction, are remote positions possible to hire for?
- ztratar 11y agoYes -- we'll help candidates with whatever they're looking for.