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Release only open source products? Not sell our information to advertisers? Not collaborate with the government to spy on us? Not use their monopoly money to bu

Release only open source products? Not sell our information to advertisers? Not collaborate with the government to spy on us? Not use their monopoly money to buy all of the smart people in the world? The list of how they could improve is endless.

albertoleal 11y ago
They don't owe you anything.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  No, they don't owe me. You also don't have to thank people who hold the door for you.
- itg 11y ago
  That's great. And we don't owe Google anything and should be able to call out their bullshit practices. Fortunately open alternatives such as Firefox still exist.
exelius 11y ago
> Release only open source products? Google open sources far more than most companies. They've also contributed greatly to building new open source projects, and they actually keep them open and are a generally benevolent maintainer. They're probably one of the best corporate citizens of the open source community. > Not sell our information to advertisers? It's their entire business model; if you don't like it, don't use their products. > Not collaborate with the government to spy on us? Google never willingly collaborated with the government. They were either hacked by the NSA (this isn't a mark of shame -- just read up on the Equation Group virus that went undetected for the better part of a decade) or they cooperated under a sealed court order. Corporations don't have the agency that individuals do in refusing to cooperate with a court order -- it's literally not possible for a company to refuse to comply with a court order because the feds can just keep arresting people until someone complies. Most companies refuse to put their employees in this position, so they comply under protest (which is exactly what Google did). > Not use their monopoly money to buy all of the smart people in the world? So they shouldn't hire under capitalist principles? Also note that this is beneficial for the smart people of the world, because it forces other companies to pay more as well.
- Niten 11y ago
  Google doesn't sell your data: http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/#nosharing http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/#nosharing Rather, its business model is using this data on behalf of advertisers. That is a highly significant distinction, in my personal opinion.
  - exelius 11y ago
    Yeah, I realize this... Ultimately it's the same effect though (advertisers use your info to show you ads), which is why I didn't make the distinction.
    - Niten 11y ago
      No, it's a huge difference. I'm willing to trust this one, specific company with my data because I know their privacy policy and their practices. Handing that data off to arbitrary other companies for a buck is another matter entirely, I wouldn't be comfortable with that; that's what "selling your data" means, that phrase has a specific meaning, and claiming that's what Google does is a misrepresentation. What you're saying is that if I tell my friend Sean a secret in confidence, it's all the same whether or not he proceeds to share it with all his friends. In my mind, and in most people's minds, it isn't.
  - Karunamon 11y ago
    ..And one that gets regularly missed in the amazingly tiresome "YOU'RE THE PRODUCT!!" meme/circlejerk/thing that gets repeated so often without any further thought around these parts.
- astazangasta 11y ago
  >So they shouldn't hire under capitalist principles? Also note that this is beneficial for the smart people of the world, because it forces other companies to pay more as well. Yes, basically I'm asking for non-capitalism (sorry, I'm a relentless anti-capitalist). It's too much for a HN thread. But I'm sick of this world - Google is a company BUILT on free software. They only exist because of public largesse. Without Linus Torvalds and Stallman (and a million others), Google would not exist, period. Without the Internet, Google would not exist. This sort of thing is rampant - github has a billion-dollar valuation based on the fact that Linus Torvalds wrote and open-sourced git, and pretty much for no other reason. I want a word that acknowledges that we exist together, dammit, that the wealth we've made - all of it - is produced in common, and that we don't use every single scrap of advantage we get to arrogate more power to ourselves. Google is a company that is built on taking a public good, perhaps the greatest public good we have ever made, and turning it into an engine for generating wealth and power for a few individuals. It's the 21st century, dammit. Let's do better. We have the fucking model for how to do this. Let's build on it. Let's share what we produce instead of taking the collective bounty and using it for our own personal gain.
Oletros 11y ago
What information does Google sell?
- astazangasta 11y ago
  Where do you think Google gets $60 billion in revenue, if not from selling information? What do you think is the content of that information?
  - Oletros 11y ago
    > Where do you think Google gets $60 billion in revenue, if not from selling information? From selling ad space and not the information?
  - tehmaco 11y ago
    They don't sell your information, they sell access to your eyeballs, _based on_ the information they have about you, combined with advertisers saying "We want to show advert X to these types of people". If they sold that information directly, they'd make a load of money today, but then none tomorrow. User information is the 'goose that lays the golden egg'.

albertoleal 11y ago

They don't owe you anything.

astazangasta 11y ago
No, they don't owe me. You also don't have to thank people who hold the door for you.
itg 11y ago
That's great. And we don't owe Google anything and should be able to call out their bullshit practices. Fortunately open alternatives such as Firefox still exist.

exelius 11y ago

> Release only open source products? Google open sources far more than most companies. They've also contributed greatly to building new open source projects, and they actually keep them open and are a generally benevolent maintainer. They're probably one of the best corporate citizens of the open source community. > Not sell our information to advertisers? It's their entire business model; if you don't like it, don't use their products. > Not collaborate with the government to spy on us? Google never willingly collaborated with the government. They were either hacked by the NSA (this isn't a mark of shame -- just read up on the Equation Group virus that went undetected for the better part of a decade) or they cooperated under a sealed court order. Corporations don't have the agency that individuals do in refusing to cooperate with a court order -- it's literally not possible for a company to refuse to comply with a court order because the feds can just keep arresting people until someone complies. Most companies refuse to put their employees in this position, so they comply under protest (which is exactly what Google did). > Not use their monopoly money to buy all of the smart people in the world? So they shouldn't hire under capitalist principles? Also note that this is beneficial for the smart people of the world, because it forces other companies to pay more as well.

Niten 11y ago
Google doesn't sell your data: http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/#nosharing http://www.google.com/policies/privacy/#nosharing Rather, its business model is using this data on behalf of advertisers. That is a highly significant distinction, in my personal opinion.
- exelius 11y ago
  Yeah, I realize this... Ultimately it's the same effect though (advertisers use your info to show you ads), which is why I didn't make the distinction.
  - Niten 11y ago
    No, it's a huge difference. I'm willing to trust this one, specific company with my data because I know their privacy policy and their practices. Handing that data off to arbitrary other companies for a buck is another matter entirely, I wouldn't be comfortable with that; that's what "selling your data" means, that phrase has a specific meaning, and claiming that's what Google does is a misrepresentation. What you're saying is that if I tell my friend Sean a secret in confidence, it's all the same whether or not he proceeds to share it with all his friends. In my mind, and in most people's minds, it isn't.
- Karunamon 11y ago
  ..And one that gets regularly missed in the amazingly tiresome "YOU'RE THE PRODUCT!!" meme/circlejerk/thing that gets repeated so often without any further thought around these parts.
astazangasta 11y ago
>So they shouldn't hire under capitalist principles? Also note that this is beneficial for the smart people of the world, because it forces other companies to pay more as well. Yes, basically I'm asking for non-capitalism (sorry, I'm a relentless anti-capitalist). It's too much for a HN thread. But I'm sick of this world - Google is a company BUILT on free software. They only exist because of public largesse. Without Linus Torvalds and Stallman (and a million others), Google would not exist, period. Without the Internet, Google would not exist. This sort of thing is rampant - github has a billion-dollar valuation based on the fact that Linus Torvalds wrote and open-sourced git, and pretty much for no other reason. I want a word that acknowledges that we exist together, dammit, that the wealth we've made - all of it - is produced in common, and that we don't use every single scrap of advantage we get to arrogate more power to ourselves. Google is a company that is built on taking a public good, perhaps the greatest public good we have ever made, and turning it into an engine for generating wealth and power for a few individuals. It's the 21st century, dammit. Let's do better. We have the fucking model for how to do this. Let's build on it. Let's share what we produce instead of taking the collective bounty and using it for our own personal gain.

Oletros 11y ago

What information does Google sell?

astazangasta 11y ago
Where do you think Google gets $60 billion in revenue, if not from selling information? What do you think is the content of that information?
- Oletros 11y ago
  > Where do you think Google gets $60 billion in revenue, if not from selling information? From selling ad space and not the information?
- tehmaco 11y ago
  They don't sell your information, they sell access to your eyeballs, _based on_ the information they have about you, combined with advertisers saying "We want to show advert X to these types of people". If they sold that information directly, they'd make a load of money today, but then none tomorrow. User information is the 'goose that lays the golden egg'.