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> Espionnage? Against le prolétariat? Who gives une merde? They always considered that ok, even as it was illegal. The NSA spying on its citizens was discusse
by espadrine 11y ago
> Espionnage? Against le prolétariat? Who gives une merde?
They always considered that ok, even as it was illegal.
The NSA spying on its citizens was discussed in France, partially because unlike the USA which has a number of laws on counterterrorism and espionage, France is lacking — spy activities are a grey area of the law, which is another way to say they were illegal. I remember a Le Monde article to this effect, citing someone at the DGSE.
After the events at Charlie Hebdo this year, the government felt confident enough to admit that those activities target French citizens and decided to make mass surveillance lawful, which caused a large backlash (notably on Twitter with the hashtag #PJLRenseignement).
But every country spies on every country it interacts with. The difference is that, there, the government does not set the rules; diplomacy does. So they try to make it a big deal to get leverage for the next negotiation. Also, appearing like a protector of the people is a politician's dream.
- bad_user 11y agoYou know, all over the world people die, the only reason the events at Charlie Hebdo were so significant even for us non-French folks is because this was an act of intimidation against freedom of expression. But it's pretty sad that these events have been used to push for making surveillance lawful. This is very like what happened with the Patriot Act after 9/11. The irony is, because of the ensuing erosion of freedom, those terrorists have won.
- fwn 11y agoEither it was significant because it was an act of intimidation against the freedom of expression or it was because it happened in Europe and targeted Europeans. If you intimidate someones freedom of expression in parts of the Middle East or Africa, nobody is impressed in the slightest.
- yodsanklai 11y ago> decided to make mass surveillance lawful, which caused a large backlash That wasn't my impression. I don't know about twitter, but there were little discussion about this law on popular media (especially compared to other unimportant issues that are debated for months, and I'm not even talking about the gay marriage that led to huge protests). Sadly, most politicians supported this law, and so did most French people.
- espadrine 11y agoTraditional media such as TV or radio talked briefly about it, but it was heavily discussed on online newspapers (eg, http://www.lemonde.fr/loi-sur-le-renseignement/ http://www.lemonde.fr/loi-sur-le-renseignement/), and websites were set up to protest and educate citizens, such as this one: http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/fr/ http://ni-pigeons-ni-espions.fr/fr/.
- yodsanklai 11y agoYes, that's my point. It caused little concern beyond a certain tech savvy community. That's why I wouldn't go as far as calling this a "large backlash" (even though I wish it was). Overall, my feeling is that the French don't react differently than the Americans on these issues.
- mercurial 11y agoI think your fear is entirely justified. The problem is compounded by the lack of tech-savy lawmakers, many of whom give the impression of voting on something they don't really understand to "do something against terrorism".