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As I said earlier, apple made a new market, and is charging for access to it. There is value in the marketplace they've created. They've collected a lot of us

As I said earlier, apple made a new market, and is charging for access to it. There is value in the marketplace they've created. They've collected a lot of users and given them an easy way to pay. Their market is expensive to maintain - their rules mean that applications are safe enough to install without thinking twice. There is essentially no iOS malware. It's somewhat like complaining about the right of console manufacturers to limit and profit from the software that runs on their platform. If you want different rules, use a different platform. Is it ridiculous to limit your potential userbase to android users, or users savvy enough to jailbreak devices? That is not apple's problem, that is your problem. One might wish for iOS policies to be different, but there is no intrinsic right for them to be different.

mikeash 11y ago
It's really irritating to make a complaint about someone's behavior and get the inevitable response that "it's their right to do so." Yes, it is. So what? It's still crappy behavior and I can still complain about it. To paraphrase xkcd, this is almost the ultimate concession, where the best thing you can say about what they're doing is that it's not literally illegal.
- tfinniga 11y ago
  I think it's entirely reasonable behavior. It doesn't favor you as much as you might like. Why should you get to take advantage of their work for free? You don't get to ship other closed-ecosystem software for free, like console games.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I object to it as a user as much as I do as a developer. Historically, a third-party software ecosystem benefits everyone. Apple is trying to suppress that to the detriment of both their developers and their users, for their own gain. The comparison with game consoles is ridiculous. I mean, it's accurate, but why would you bring that up? It's not like I approve of how they do it either.
yellowapple 11y ago
> There is value in the marketplace they've created. I'd argue said "value" is artificial or inflated (inclusively), but whatever. > It's somewhat like complaining about the right of console manufacturers to limit and profit from the software that runs on their platform. Something which I do actually object to in a lot of circumstances, since it presents a significant barrier to entry for "indie" developers. Thankfully, though, at least game consoles' arbitrary restrictions are typically easier to permanently circumvent (though perhaps this is starting to change). > If you want different rules, use a different platform. And I do; I've been an Android user exclusively for the last few years after I got sick and tired of continually jailbreaking my iPhone just to install apps that Apple didn't approve of. > Is it ridiculous to limit your potential userbase to android users, or users savvy enough to jailbreak devices? I have no problem at all with the former. It's the latter that's absurd. At least in the former, one doesn't have to jump through seemingly-endless hoops to maintain a semblance of user choice. > One might wish for iOS policies to be different, but there is no intrinsic right for them to be different. You're right. There's also no intrinsic requirement for me to, say, let houseguests bring their own food for a party at my house. That doesn't make me any less of a dick for painstakingly inspecting and rejecting each individual platter and charging each food-bringer a $100 "food preparer fee" in order to serve said food at my party. The walled garden is pretty and all, but all walls eventually crumble, and forests are way more fun anyway.

mikeash 11y ago

It's really irritating to make a complaint about someone's behavior and get the inevitable response that "it's their right to do so." Yes, it is. So what? It's still crappy behavior and I can still complain about it. To paraphrase xkcd, this is almost the ultimate concession, where the best thing you can say about what they're doing is that it's not literally illegal.

tfinniga 11y ago
I think it's entirely reasonable behavior. It doesn't favor you as much as you might like. Why should you get to take advantage of their work for free? You don't get to ship other closed-ecosystem software for free, like console games.
- mikeash 11y ago
  I object to it as a user as much as I do as a developer. Historically, a third-party software ecosystem benefits everyone. Apple is trying to suppress that to the detriment of both their developers and their users, for their own gain. The comparison with game consoles is ridiculous. I mean, it's accurate, but why would you bring that up? It's not like I approve of how they do it either.

yellowapple 11y ago

> There is value in the marketplace they've created. I'd argue said "value" is artificial or inflated (inclusively), but whatever. > It's somewhat like complaining about the right of console manufacturers to limit and profit from the software that runs on their platform. Something which I do actually object to in a lot of circumstances, since it presents a significant barrier to entry for "indie" developers. Thankfully, though, at least game consoles' arbitrary restrictions are typically easier to permanently circumvent (though perhaps this is starting to change). > If you want different rules, use a different platform. And I do; I've been an Android user exclusively for the last few years after I got sick and tired of continually jailbreaking my iPhone just to install apps that Apple didn't approve of. > Is it ridiculous to limit your potential userbase to android users, or users savvy enough to jailbreak devices? I have no problem at all with the former. It's the latter that's absurd. At least in the former, one doesn't have to jump through seemingly-endless hoops to maintain a semblance of user choice. > One might wish for iOS policies to be different, but there is no intrinsic right for them to be different. You're right. There's also no intrinsic requirement for me to, say, let houseguests bring their own food for a party at my house. That doesn't make me any less of a dick for painstakingly inspecting and rejecting each individual platter and charging each food-bringer a $100 "food preparer fee" in order to serve said food at my party. The walled garden is pretty and all, but all walls eventually crumble, and forests are way more fun anyway.