5 ms·

> We’re a YC-backed indie video game company releasing an open source alternative to Slack. Don't want to troll you guys here, but if you're a video game compa

> We’re a YC-backed indie video game company releasing an open source alternative to Slack. Don't want to troll you guys here, but if you're a video game company why are you spending so much time building a Slack clone? I was expecting some short of explanation in your blog post like "we did this because this serves as a core piece of our company for X reason and Slack didn't fit our use case for Y reason".

a13xb 11y ago
They probably pivoted. ;)
- sbank 11y ago
  Very interested? Somewhat interested? Not interested? Which one? Which one? Which one?
  - socceroos 11y ago
    Emperor's Groove reference?
tacone 11y ago
They probably had to build similar stuff for some of their games perhaps.
- it33 11y ago
  Mattermost team here, You guessed it, Mattermost is the 3rd version of what started as a portal/community site for our players (first version was forum-like, the second was Facebook-like, Mattermost is now HipChat/Slack-like).
  - javiercr 11y ago
    A blog post with that story would be interesting!
dasil003 11y ago
I can't tell if you're aware of the coincidence, but did you know that Slack was a pivot from game development just like Stewart Butterfield's previous unicorn Flickr?
- quesera 11y ago
  "Unicorn" is probably the silliest term of the year. But it degrades to meaninglessness if you include Flickr, which sold to Yahoo! in 2005, for $20MM.
  - reitzensteinm 11y ago
    Not defending the use of the term, but you have to look at acquisitions in the context of the time. Though $20m seems like nothing notable today, in the post bubble fallout it was a significant achievement.
    - frostmatthew 11y ago
      > Though $20m seems like nothing notable today, in the post bubble fallout it was a significant achievement. 2005 is probably a bit beyond the "post bubble fallout" - nevertheless the previous year Yahoo spent $579M on Kelkoo and in 2003 (which is most definitely "post bubble fallout" era) they bought Overture Services for $1.6B[1]. Creating something that fetches $20M is certainly a success, but let's not pretend this is some amazing acquisition story on par with YouTube. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Yahoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...!
  - dasil003 11y ago
    Wow, I got reamed out pretty hard for absent-minded use of a trendy term without thinking about it too much. In my mind Flickr is up there with the Instagrams and the Ubers of the world because it was a fucking amazing experience at the time. I never even considered the valuation, but Flickr was definitely unique in the UX it brought to the table. I think people forget what the landscape looked like then. Or maybe they just can't get past a knee-jerk reaction to hot-button terminology. Either way, I think it's fascinating that not one but two companies from the founder of Slack were pivots from game companies, and that's exactly what the GP is complaining about in the clone. Anyone care to comment on that?
pornel 11y ago
It may be a perfect match, given that Slack has been created by a game dev team too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slack_Technologies#Initial_funding_and_Glitch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slack_Technologies#Initial_fun...
- lucisferre 11y ago
  I'm not sure why that would be all that relevant though.
  - giancarlostoro 11y ago
    If they wanted to implement a chat feature into a game it might be easier to embed this, though I could be wrong? Or if they just want a tweakable and reusable chat service to be used in-house maybe?
- evilduck 11y ago
  With even the same argument of them building a HipChat or Flowdock clone.
- atombender 11y ago
  It's rather funny how Stewart Butterfield keeps trying to build games, and ending up with social apps. His first company, Ludicorp, tried to build an MMORPG called Game Neverending, which never launched, and they pivoted to create Flickr, apparently based on the same platform (which is why ".gne" URLs proliferated Flickr originally). With Tiny Speck, he created Glitch, another MMORPG, which closed a little more than a year after launch. Tiny Speck then pivoted to launch Slack, based on a chat app they had built internally while developing their game.
  - misterbwong 11y ago
    It makes sense, in a weird way. MMO's are such huge projects that developers are forced to create supporting subsystems to complete it (e.g. Image/asset processing and storage system - Flickr, in-game chat and collaboration system - Slack). I'm impressed that Stewart Butterfield is able to look at these systems and recognize which ones could be a viable (and successful!) stand-alone product.
nadams 11y ago
> Don't want to troll you guys here, but if you're a video game company why are you spending so much time building a Slack clone? I think a better perspective is that this is a tool they needed/wanted and built it - it's really no different than a map editor. Also some companies like Google have a X% time to work on a "personal" project during work hours - and this could be the result of that.
- jqueryin 11y ago
  Sounds like a lot of burndown on your non-core competency IMO, but thanks for releasing.
  - PopeOfNope 11y ago
    Not all companies track sprints by the hour. :) Dev times for AAA video games are in years, not months. After working for both web and game companies, I find the development mindset for each to be remarkably incompatible.
    - daheza 11y ago
      Have you noticed any other development differences between web and game companies? This would make a great blog post.
      - shanemhansen 11y ago
        I've noticed one difference. Game companies locally are known as sweatshops. I've literally talked to their recruiters who laugh as they share stories about how some game dev. had his wife calling to ask if he could come home for a few hours because she hadn't seem him in a week. They have this crazy idea called "crunch time" which seems to be the same thing as "all the time". Also, because so many people go into CS programs because they want to make games, game companies aren't forced to pay very high salaries.
AnonJ 11y ago
What's wrong with that? Many great products started at companies which are not "supposed" to do that as their core business. Pivotal Tracker is one thing that immediately sprang to my mind. Why do you want to strictly limit what a company is working on, and potentially kill great ideas anyways. I believe as long as they're still functioning, their game development business is probably totally fine. The same applies to a person: I don't believe if you work on something as a full-time job you're then not allowed to have your hobbies, side projects(some of which are quite huge in scale) and personal interests. That would be horrible.

a13xb 11y ago

They probably pivoted. ;)

sbank 11y ago
Very interested? Somewhat interested? Not interested? Which one? Which one? Which one?
- socceroos 11y ago
  Emperor's Groove reference?

tacone 11y ago

They probably had to build similar stuff for some of their games perhaps.

it33 11y ago
Mattermost team here, You guessed it, Mattermost is the 3rd version of what started as a portal/community site for our players (first version was forum-like, the second was Facebook-like, Mattermost is now HipChat/Slack-like).
- javiercr 11y ago
  A blog post with that story would be interesting!

dasil003 11y ago

I can't tell if you're aware of the coincidence, but did you know that Slack was a pivot from game development just like Stewart Butterfield's previous unicorn Flickr?

quesera 11y ago
"Unicorn" is probably the silliest term of the year. But it degrades to meaninglessness if you include Flickr, which sold to Yahoo! in 2005, for $20MM.
- reitzensteinm 11y ago
  Not defending the use of the term, but you have to look at acquisitions in the context of the time. Though $20m seems like nothing notable today, in the post bubble fallout it was a significant achievement.
  - frostmatthew 11y ago
    > Though $20m seems like nothing notable today, in the post bubble fallout it was a significant achievement. 2005 is probably a bit beyond the "post bubble fallout" - nevertheless the previous year Yahoo spent $579M on Kelkoo and in 2003 (which is most definitely "post bubble fallout" era) they bought Overture Services for $1.6B[1]. Creating something that fetches $20M is certainly a success, but let's not pretend this is some amazing acquisition story on par with YouTube. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitions_by_Yahoo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mergers_and_acquisitio...!
- dasil003 11y ago
  Wow, I got reamed out pretty hard for absent-minded use of a trendy term without thinking about it too much. In my mind Flickr is up there with the Instagrams and the Ubers of the world because it was a fucking amazing experience at the time. I never even considered the valuation, but Flickr was definitely unique in the UX it brought to the table. I think people forget what the landscape looked like then. Or maybe they just can't get past a knee-jerk reaction to hot-button terminology. Either way, I think it's fascinating that not one but two companies from the founder of Slack were pivots from game companies, and that's exactly what the GP is complaining about in the clone. Anyone care to comment on that?

pornel 11y ago

It may be a perfect match, given that Slack has been created by a game dev team too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slack_Technologies#Initial_funding_and_Glitch https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slack_Technologies#Initial_fun...

lucisferre 11y ago
I'm not sure why that would be all that relevant though.
- giancarlostoro 11y ago
  If they wanted to implement a chat feature into a game it might be easier to embed this, though I could be wrong? Or if they just want a tweakable and reusable chat service to be used in-house maybe?
evilduck 11y ago
With even the same argument of them building a HipChat or Flowdock clone.
atombender 11y ago
It's rather funny how Stewart Butterfield keeps trying to build games, and ending up with social apps. His first company, Ludicorp, tried to build an MMORPG called Game Neverending, which never launched, and they pivoted to create Flickr, apparently based on the same platform (which is why ".gne" URLs proliferated Flickr originally). With Tiny Speck, he created Glitch, another MMORPG, which closed a little more than a year after launch. Tiny Speck then pivoted to launch Slack, based on a chat app they had built internally while developing their game.
- misterbwong 11y ago
  It makes sense, in a weird way. MMO's are such huge projects that developers are forced to create supporting subsystems to complete it (e.g. Image/asset processing and storage system - Flickr, in-game chat and collaboration system - Slack). I'm impressed that Stewart Butterfield is able to look at these systems and recognize which ones could be a viable (and successful!) stand-alone product.

nadams 11y ago

> Don't want to troll you guys here, but if you're a video game company why are you spending so much time building a Slack clone? I think a better perspective is that this is a tool they needed/wanted and built it - it's really no different than a map editor. Also some companies like Google have a X% time to work on a "personal" project during work hours - and this could be the result of that.

jqueryin 11y ago
Sounds like a lot of burndown on your non-core competency IMO, but thanks for releasing.
- PopeOfNope 11y ago
  Not all companies track sprints by the hour. :) Dev times for AAA video games are in years, not months. After working for both web and game companies, I find the development mindset for each to be remarkably incompatible.
  - daheza 11y ago
    Have you noticed any other development differences between web and game companies? This would make a great blog post.
    - shanemhansen 11y ago
      I've noticed one difference. Game companies locally are known as sweatshops. I've literally talked to their recruiters who laugh as they share stories about how some game dev. had his wife calling to ask if he could come home for a few hours because she hadn't seem him in a week. They have this crazy idea called "crunch time" which seems to be the same thing as "all the time". Also, because so many people go into CS programs because they want to make games, game companies aren't forced to pay very high salaries.

AnonJ 11y ago

What's wrong with that? Many great products started at companies which are not "supposed" to do that as their core business. Pivotal Tracker is one thing that immediately sprang to my mind. Why do you want to strictly limit what a company is working on, and potentially kill great ideas anyways. I believe as long as they're still functioning, their game development business is probably totally fine. The same applies to a person: I don't believe if you work on something as a full-time job you're then not allowed to have your hobbies, side projects(some of which are quite huge in scale) and personal interests. That would be horrible.