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So, supposedly these guidelines looked out for your health, but given that so many of their "findings" have been overturned, then they've basically been giving

So, supposedly these guidelines looked out for your health, but given that so many of their "findings" have been overturned, then they've basically been giving advice that actually hindered peoples' health, and so one might understand that they've actually been harmful! This might lead one to question the validity of other government suggestions. Or even policies. Maybe that's too far. Nonetheless, I think this raises serious questions as to how much faith we can put even into the government, even their "scientific" findings.

tptacek 11y ago
Stupid scientists with their stupid science that isn't alway right.
- dpeck 11y ago
  I think the problem for is a lot of it wasn't science driven, was more economic/ag policy driving waves hands science.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    You seriously think ag policy created the food pyramid? It wasn't just the government promoting the idea that people needed to limit salt and fat.
    - pessimizer 11y ago
      >You seriously think ag policy created the food pyramid? Yes.
    - dpeck 11y ago
      I think things that government agencies do don't happen in a vacuum. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/pyramid.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/py...
jakobegger 11y ago
A few incorrect parts don't mean the guidelines aren't a net benefit. Just imagine what an average school cafeteria would serve if no regulations were in place at all.
- douche 11y ago
  Yeah, they used to serve real food. About 20 years ago, the school districts where I lived were buying real ingredients and the cooks were actually cooking meals. Now it's all packaged crap that they slap on a baking sheet and barely warm up.
HaloZero 11y ago
I'm sorry, but welcome to science. Theories evolve, new things are discovered, we make appropriate changes. If the government stubbornly held onto their previous policies then they would be open to criticism, but the fact that things are changing is a good thing. Nutritional science is hard, our bodies are complex.
- sjwright 11y ago
  I'm sorry, but welcome to politics. The dietary guidelines speak more to lobbying efforts than anything else. It's disingenuous to suggest that the US dietary guidelines are aligned to the evolving theories in nutritional science.
- a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
  You get enough bad ideas hiding under the aegis of "science." Some guys claim something and pretend to be more sure about it than they've right to be. Dress it up as a scientific theory and you're personally unassailable. I happen to think the data did and still does support restricting total fat. Highly saturated fats are mostly benign, but many fatty foods also have substantial quantities of unsaturated fats that are clearly linked to health consequences. So in practice "take easy on the fatty foods" has always been not bad for blanket general advice. They are probably making a mistake with this revision.
  - adwn 11y ago
    > Highly saturated fats are mostly benign, but many fatty foods also have substantial quantities of unsaturated fats that are clearly linked to health consequences. I thought it was the saturated fats that are unhealthy, and the unsaturated fats that are benign and even essential up to some amount daily?
    - GordonS 11y ago
      It's complicated :) I've been reading a lot of papers on this subject recently, and it seems there is a complex interplay between intake of carbohydrate, saturated fat, polyunsaturated fat and monounsaturated fat.
jonlarson 11y ago
Do you have a better alternative that we should put our faith in? At least the government has a somewhat transparent and, at least in theory, non-profit motivated process for creating these guidelines. Virtually any other source, other than doing the research yourself, is going to be about selling you something. And the fact of the matter is, the government probably has the most incentive of any organisation to keep people healthy. I actually find that this increases my confidence in government recommendations. The fact that the old guidelines are being updated given new research over the past decades is a wonderful thing to see.
- sjwright 11y ago
  We live on a big planet with many different countries populated by the same species of human. Perhaps you could start by reading what other countries' governments recommend in terms of nutrition?
  - roel_v 11y ago
    Well then why don't you enlighten us on the result of such a reading? For the impatient, I'll spill the beans - because the guidelines are quite similar across the board! They're all based on the same research and scientific majority opinion at the time! Who would've thought?

tptacek 11y ago

Stupid scientists with their stupid science that isn't alway right.

dpeck 11y ago
I think the problem for is a lot of it wasn't science driven, was more economic/ag policy driving waves hands science.
- tptacek 11y ago
  You seriously think ag policy created the food pyramid? It wasn't just the government promoting the idea that people needed to limit salt and fat.
  - pessimizer 11y ago
    >You seriously think ag policy created the food pyramid? Yes.
  - dpeck 11y ago
    I think things that government agencies do don't happen in a vacuum. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/pyramid.html http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/diet/themes/py...

jakobegger 11y ago

A few incorrect parts don't mean the guidelines aren't a net benefit. Just imagine what an average school cafeteria would serve if no regulations were in place at all.

douche 11y ago
Yeah, they used to serve real food. About 20 years ago, the school districts where I lived were buying real ingredients and the cooks were actually cooking meals. Now it's all packaged crap that they slap on a baking sheet and barely warm up.

HaloZero 11y ago

I'm sorry, but welcome to science. Theories evolve, new things are discovered, we make appropriate changes. If the government stubbornly held onto their previous policies then they would be open to criticism, but the fact that things are changing is a good thing. Nutritional science is hard, our bodies are complex.

sjwright 11y ago
I'm sorry, but welcome to politics. The dietary guidelines speak more to lobbying efforts than anything else. It's disingenuous to suggest that the US dietary guidelines are aligned to the evolving theories in nutritional science.
a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
You get enough bad ideas hiding under the aegis of "science." Some guys claim something and pretend to be more sure about it than they've right to be. Dress it up as a scientific theory and you're personally unassailable. I happen to think the data did and still does support restricting total fat. Highly saturated fats are mostly benign, but many fatty foods also have substantial quantities of unsaturated fats that are clearly linked to health consequences. So in practice "take easy on the fatty foods" has always been not bad for blanket general advice. They are probably making a mistake with this revision.
- adwn 11y ago
  > Highly saturated fats are mostly benign, but many fatty foods also have substantial quantities of unsaturated fats that are clearly linked to health consequences. I thought it was the saturated fats that are unhealthy, and the unsaturated fats that are benign and even essential up to some amount daily?
  - GordonS 11y ago
    It's complicated :) I've been reading a lot of papers on this subject recently, and it seems there is a complex interplay between intake of carbohydrate, saturated fat, polyunsaturated fat and monounsaturated fat.

jonlarson 11y ago

Do you have a better alternative that we should put our faith in? At least the government has a somewhat transparent and, at least in theory, non-profit motivated process for creating these guidelines. Virtually any other source, other than doing the research yourself, is going to be about selling you something. And the fact of the matter is, the government probably has the most incentive of any organisation to keep people healthy. I actually find that this increases my confidence in government recommendations. The fact that the old guidelines are being updated given new research over the past decades is a wonderful thing to see.

sjwright 11y ago
We live on a big planet with many different countries populated by the same species of human. Perhaps you could start by reading what other countries' governments recommend in terms of nutrition?
- roel_v 11y ago
  Well then why don't you enlighten us on the result of such a reading? For the impatient, I'll spill the beans - because the guidelines are quite similar across the board! They're all based on the same research and scientific majority opinion at the time! Who would've thought?