4 ms·

This is a little bit like coming into a thread about sailing and asking people to prove to you the earth is round by showing citations. Why don't you start by

This is a little bit like coming into a thread about sailing and asking people to prove to you the earth is round by showing citations. Why don't you start by showing your citations that say otherwise?

ska 11y ago
No, it really isn't. There isn't anything resembling scientific consensus on huge swathes of this stuff. Anything as straightforward as the claim I was responding to is an extraordinary claim. As such it requires support. Where I'm coming from is this: - If you do any sort medical research you quickly learn that demonstrating even simple causal relationships is difficult. Demonstrating it for something as difficult to control for properly as diet is extremely difficult, and it mostly fails. - The vast majority of information on dietary effects easily available to the lay public is, to put it bluntly, mostly marketing B.S. of various kinds. - I was probably being unfair to the original comment but find it frustrating the number of times you see "Oh, I'll apply flavor-of-the-year, wave my hands about the mechanism, and voila, the answer is probably X". I probably shouldn't have said anything, as it's unlikely to be productive.
- moultano 11y ago
  This is settled enough science that when you go to the doctor as an overweight Indian person, the doctor says "Eat less roti and rice or you are going to get diabetes." Admittedly nutrition science doesn't have a great track record of accuracy, but when something is well enough established that it's the standard preventative treatment, I don't think it requires a citation.
  - ska 11y ago
    Again you are mentioning diabetes rates in a discussion about heart disease. Any particular reason why? I'm genuinely curious, they are related but not that strongly as I understand it.
    - moultano 11y ago
      Diabetes is typically a symptom of an underlying issue that also causes heart disease, Metabolic Syndrome (particularly in south asians.) Diabetes is diagnosed more reliably than the other criteria because it requires direct intervention, so it's useful as an indicator variable. http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MetabolicSyndrome/Metabolic-Syndrome-ATH_UCM_002080_SubHomePage.jsp http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MetabolicSyndr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome

ska 11y ago

No, it really isn't. There isn't anything resembling scientific consensus on huge swathes of this stuff. Anything as straightforward as the claim I was responding to is an extraordinary claim. As such it requires support. Where I'm coming from is this: - If you do any sort medical research you quickly learn that demonstrating even simple causal relationships is difficult. Demonstrating it for something as difficult to control for properly as diet is extremely difficult, and it mostly fails. - The vast majority of information on dietary effects easily available to the lay public is, to put it bluntly, mostly marketing B.S. of various kinds. - I was probably being unfair to the original comment but find it frustrating the number of times you see "Oh, I'll apply flavor-of-the-year, wave my hands about the mechanism, and voila, the answer is probably X". I probably shouldn't have said anything, as it's unlikely to be productive.

moultano 11y ago
This is settled enough science that when you go to the doctor as an overweight Indian person, the doctor says "Eat less roti and rice or you are going to get diabetes." Admittedly nutrition science doesn't have a great track record of accuracy, but when something is well enough established that it's the standard preventative treatment, I don't think it requires a citation.
- ska 11y ago
  Again you are mentioning diabetes rates in a discussion about heart disease. Any particular reason why? I'm genuinely curious, they are related but not that strongly as I understand it.
  - moultano 11y ago
    Diabetes is typically a symptom of an underlying issue that also causes heart disease, Metabolic Syndrome (particularly in south asians.) Diabetes is diagnosed more reliably than the other criteria because it requires direct intervention, so it's useful as an indicator variable. http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MetabolicSyndrome/Metabolic-Syndrome-ATH_UCM_002080_SubHomePage.jsp http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/Conditions/More/MetabolicSyndr... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metabolic_syndrome