13 ms·

Stack 0.1 – A new build tool for Haskell

59 points by mcbuilder 11y ago

hoverbear 11y ago
Page does not exist.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  Works for me even though archive.is (https://archive.is/GZLs2 https://archive.is/GZLs2) doesn't see it. here's the announcement text: http://pastebin.com/aPLq5ySG http://pastebin.com/aPLq5ySG
- angerman 11y ago
  Didn't work the first time either. But visiting the site a second time revealed the article.
fiatjaf 11y ago
Works here also.
cies 11y ago
While Stack is still young software it is amazing to see how Haskell went from having sub-par build tooling, to something that pretty much trumphs all build tooling I've ever worked with. And all of this happened in about one or two years. I totally see how this language and it's ecosystem are going to be the next big thing in programming. Ultra highlevel and very compact code that compiles to relatively fast native code. Purely functional and strong type system guarantees to help refactoring the most complex codebases. It is a hell of a secret weapon for startups.
- demilicious 11y ago
  Could you explain this a little more? What new build tooling has been developed for Haskell recently (other than the parent link)? One of the things that keeps me from revisiting Haskell was the aforementioned subpar build tooling. That's one of the reasons I'm enjoying Golang so much.
  - cies 11y ago
    Sure... Stackage: curated sets of packages that are known to work together. LTS Haskell: Stackage + pinning to a GHC version + seperating non-breaking upgrades (minor LTS version increases) from breaking ones (major increases). SSL downloading. Stack: also downloading/building of GHC if it does not exists, understands mega-repo's (many packages in one git repo), eases working with shared local pools of packages, eases working with dependencies that are not in Stackage/LTS, and more that I probably forget. A more detailed explanation of the merits of Stack can be found in this video: http://begriffs.com/posts/2015-06-22-haskell-stack-build-tool.html http://begriffs.com/posts/2015-06-22-haskell-stack-build-too...
    - justthistime_ 11y ago
      Isn't that all basic stuff SBT did for years already?
      - reagency 11y ago
        What is SBT? But yes, these are all table stakes that Haskell has been lagging on, in part because Haskell library versions break compatibility very frequently, and Haskell has a very non-local/modular way of building source.
        girvo 11y ago
        SBT is the Scala build tool (hence the name, I guess) if I recall correctly.
    - zak_mc_kracken 11y ago
      So basically everything that's been available on the JVM for more than ten years. I understand your excitement to finally have that if you didn't beforehand, but this is pretty old stuff.
      - oconnor0 11y ago
        What about that has the JVM had for years?
- kazinator 11y ago
  Trumps all build tooling? Can I take any GNU Make project and replace the build tool with Stack?
  - cies 11y ago
    I notice now I cut some corners. I meant language specific tooling for resolving/downloading dependencies, building and installing. Sorry for the confusion.
  - cauterize 11y ago
    No, but you might with Shake: http://shakebuild.com/ http://shakebuild.com/
- zak_mc_kracken 11y ago
  > It is a hell of a secret weapon for startups. So secret that hardly any startups use it and hardly anyone has open positions for Haskell jobs... You have your work cut out for you :-)
  - codygman 11y ago
    > hardly anyone has open positions for Haskell jobs They do exist (many but not all are mainly Haskell positions): http://jobsearch.monster.com/search/programmer_5?q=haskell http://jobsearch.monster.com/search/programmer_5?q=haskell http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs?searchTerm=haskell http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs?searchTerm=haskell
  - mightybyte 11y ago
    JP Morgan [1], Standard Chartered [2], Skedge.me [3], Soostone [4], and Facebook [5] have all advertised open Haskell positions recently. And those are just the ones that come to mind immediately. [1] https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2015-June/120055.html https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2015-June/12... [2] https://donsbot.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/haskell-dev-role-in-strats-at-standard-chartered-london/ https://donsbot.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/haskell-dev-role-in... [3] http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/32ydm7/haskell_jobs_100_ghc_haskell_no_ruby_scala_php_c/ http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/32ydm7/haskell_jobs... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9473292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9473292 [5] http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2useoq/haskell_opportunities_at_facebook/ http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2useoq/haskell_oppo...
    - r0naa 11y ago
      This is exciting news but the company you mentioned do not really qualify as "startups" though.
      - akurilin 11y ago
        A couple of them mentioned here just for the Bay: http://www.wagonhq.com/blog/bayhac http://www.wagonhq.com/blog/bayhac . Hope we still qualify as a startup!
- mightybyte 11y ago
  > I totally see how this language and it's ecosystem are going to be the next big thing in programming. I agree and it seems like 2015 has seen a substantial increase in interest in Haskell. The NY Haskell meetup group has seen a steadily increasing number of group joins this year. Both of the last two months have had a record number of new signups and have been more than double the median. I don't know what is causing the increased interest, but it's clearly not an isolated spike.
  - LukeHoersten 11y ago
    We've seen big growth and interest in the Chicago Haskell group as well.
    - michaelochurch 11y ago
      We've seen big growth and interest in the Chicago Haskell group as well. I'll support Luke's claim. We've had over 30 people for the last two meetups (in March and May). There's a lot of interest in the next Meetup (July or August, depending on speaker availability). I'm also planning to do a beginner Haskell class (assuming programming experience, but no Haskell experience) in Chicago around November over a couple of weekends. I'm writing a summer class that my company will use, and I'm planning to convert that to a weekend workshop (probably 2 weekends, realistically) in the fall.
      - LukeHoersten 11y ago
        Very much thanks to your efforts, Michael!
  - cies 11y ago
    Also the http://reddit.com/r/haskell http://reddit.com/r/haskell increased a lot over the last few years.
mrcactu5 11y ago
is this supposed to replace Cabal?
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  It relies on cabal-the-library. It replaces cabal-the-tool.
- mcbuilder 11y ago
  It's basically a drop in replacement for `cabal-install`, while leveraging off Cabal the library, which means package description files don't need to be rewritten, i.e. your old cabal package will still work. It's a huge departure from using cabal-install. Faster project setup time, and not having to worry about managing sandboxes, compiling a new sandbox, or getting stuck in cabal hell. So, yes, you could look at it as a cabal-install rewrite.
- mightybyte 11y ago
  For some use cases it might work as a replacement, but it doesn't have a dependency solver so I don't think you can really say it's a serious general-purpose cabal replacement. It's more like build porcelain for cases where you already have your package's whole dependency tree locked down.
  - snoyberg 11y ago
    This is false, see the `stack solver` and `stack init --solver` commands. Currently it's using cabal's dependency solver under the surface, but there is work in progress (by multiple parties) to implement a new SAT-based solver, see: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/116 https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/116
    - mightybyte 11y ago
      Ahh, my mistake. Cabal's solver is in the cabal-install package and since stack doesn't depend on it I assumed it wasn't tackling that problem. Since it's actually shelling out to the cabal executable for its solving needs it still pretty much fits the definition of porcelain.
beefsack 11y ago
URL appears to have changed to https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/06/announcing-first-public-beta-stack https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/06/announcing-first-pub...
rrradical 11y ago
I assume this is too green to work with cross-compilation (to arm built from x86, for example), but does anyone know if that support is planned? I did some haskell work with iphone in the past, and it was a pain to go from testing locally to testing on device. Everything (including dependencies) had to be rebuilt. This would solve my multipackage woes, but only if it could separate platforms.
- codygman 11y ago
  I've been using docker for cross compilation.
  - rrradical 11y ago
    That...is a great idea. Thanks!
kyllo 11y ago
Stack is freaking awesome (brings compile times down dramatically, prevents cabal hell) but I'm sad that it doesn't seem to work with emacs haskell-mode and yesod-bin yet (because those tools depend on a .cabal dir). Stack support for those tools can't come soon enough!

59 points by mcbuilder 11y ago

hoverbear 11y ago

Page does not exist.

agumonkey 11y ago
Works for me even though archive.is (https://archive.is/GZLs2 https://archive.is/GZLs2) doesn't see it. here's the announcement text: http://pastebin.com/aPLq5ySG http://pastebin.com/aPLq5ySG
angerman 11y ago
Didn't work the first time either. But visiting the site a second time revealed the article.

fiatjaf 11y ago

Works here also.

cies 11y ago

While Stack is still young software it is amazing to see how Haskell went from having sub-par build tooling, to something that pretty much trumphs all build tooling I've ever worked with. And all of this happened in about one or two years. I totally see how this language and it's ecosystem are going to be the next big thing in programming. Ultra highlevel and very compact code that compiles to relatively fast native code. Purely functional and strong type system guarantees to help refactoring the most complex codebases. It is a hell of a secret weapon for startups.

demilicious 11y ago
Could you explain this a little more? What new build tooling has been developed for Haskell recently (other than the parent link)? One of the things that keeps me from revisiting Haskell was the aforementioned subpar build tooling. That's one of the reasons I'm enjoying Golang so much.
- cies 11y ago
  Sure... Stackage: curated sets of packages that are known to work together. LTS Haskell: Stackage + pinning to a GHC version + seperating non-breaking upgrades (minor LTS version increases) from breaking ones (major increases). SSL downloading. Stack: also downloading/building of GHC if it does not exists, understands mega-repo's (many packages in one git repo), eases working with shared local pools of packages, eases working with dependencies that are not in Stackage/LTS, and more that I probably forget. A more detailed explanation of the merits of Stack can be found in this video: http://begriffs.com/posts/2015-06-22-haskell-stack-build-tool.html http://begriffs.com/posts/2015-06-22-haskell-stack-build-too...
  - justthistime_ 11y ago
    Isn't that all basic stuff SBT did for years already?
    - reagency 11y ago
      What is SBT? But yes, these are all table stakes that Haskell has been lagging on, in part because Haskell library versions break compatibility very frequently, and Haskell has a very non-local/modular way of building source.
      - girvo 11y ago
        SBT is the Scala build tool (hence the name, I guess) if I recall correctly.
  - zak_mc_kracken 11y ago
    So basically everything that's been available on the JVM for more than ten years. I understand your excitement to finally have that if you didn't beforehand, but this is pretty old stuff.
    - oconnor0 11y ago
      What about that has the JVM had for years?
kazinator 11y ago
Trumps all build tooling? Can I take any GNU Make project and replace the build tool with Stack?
- cies 11y ago
  I notice now I cut some corners. I meant language specific tooling for resolving/downloading dependencies, building and installing. Sorry for the confusion.
- cauterize 11y ago
  No, but you might with Shake: http://shakebuild.com/ http://shakebuild.com/
zak_mc_kracken 11y ago
> It is a hell of a secret weapon for startups. So secret that hardly any startups use it and hardly anyone has open positions for Haskell jobs... You have your work cut out for you :-)
- codygman 11y ago
  > hardly anyone has open positions for Haskell jobs They do exist (many but not all are mainly Haskell positions): http://jobsearch.monster.com/search/programmer_5?q=haskell http://jobsearch.monster.com/search/programmer_5?q=haskell http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs?searchTerm=haskell http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs?searchTerm=haskell
- mightybyte 11y ago
  JP Morgan [1], Standard Chartered [2], Skedge.me [3], Soostone [4], and Facebook [5] have all advertised open Haskell positions recently. And those are just the ones that come to mind immediately. [1] https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2015-June/120055.html https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2015-June/12... [2] https://donsbot.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/haskell-dev-role-in-strats-at-standard-chartered-london/ https://donsbot.wordpress.com/2015/06/10/haskell-dev-role-in... [3] http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/32ydm7/haskell_jobs_100_ghc_haskell_no_ruby_scala_php_c/ http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/32ydm7/haskell_jobs... [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9473292 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9473292 [5] http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2useoq/haskell_opportunities_at_facebook/ http://www.reddit.com/r/haskell/comments/2useoq/haskell_oppo...
  - r0naa 11y ago
    This is exciting news but the company you mentioned do not really qualify as "startups" though.
    - akurilin 11y ago
      A couple of them mentioned here just for the Bay: http://www.wagonhq.com/blog/bayhac http://www.wagonhq.com/blog/bayhac . Hope we still qualify as a startup!
mightybyte 11y ago
> I totally see how this language and it's ecosystem are going to be the next big thing in programming. I agree and it seems like 2015 has seen a substantial increase in interest in Haskell. The NY Haskell meetup group has seen a steadily increasing number of group joins this year. Both of the last two months have had a record number of new signups and have been more than double the median. I don't know what is causing the increased interest, but it's clearly not an isolated spike.
- LukeHoersten 11y ago
  We've seen big growth and interest in the Chicago Haskell group as well.
  - michaelochurch 11y ago
    We've seen big growth and interest in the Chicago Haskell group as well. I'll support Luke's claim. We've had over 30 people for the last two meetups (in March and May). There's a lot of interest in the next Meetup (July or August, depending on speaker availability). I'm also planning to do a beginner Haskell class (assuming programming experience, but no Haskell experience) in Chicago around November over a couple of weekends. I'm writing a summer class that my company will use, and I'm planning to convert that to a weekend workshop (probably 2 weekends, realistically) in the fall.
    - LukeHoersten 11y ago
      Very much thanks to your efforts, Michael!
- cies 11y ago
  Also the http://reddit.com/r/haskell http://reddit.com/r/haskell increased a lot over the last few years.

mrcactu5 11y ago

is this supposed to replace Cabal?

dragonwriter 11y ago
It relies on cabal-the-library. It replaces cabal-the-tool.
mcbuilder 11y ago
It's basically a drop in replacement for `cabal-install`, while leveraging off Cabal the library, which means package description files don't need to be rewritten, i.e. your old cabal package will still work. It's a huge departure from using cabal-install. Faster project setup time, and not having to worry about managing sandboxes, compiling a new sandbox, or getting stuck in cabal hell. So, yes, you could look at it as a cabal-install rewrite.
mightybyte 11y ago
For some use cases it might work as a replacement, but it doesn't have a dependency solver so I don't think you can really say it's a serious general-purpose cabal replacement. It's more like build porcelain for cases where you already have your package's whole dependency tree locked down.
- snoyberg 11y ago
  This is false, see the `stack solver` and `stack init --solver` commands. Currently it's using cabal's dependency solver under the surface, but there is work in progress (by multiple parties) to implement a new SAT-based solver, see: https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/116 https://github.com/commercialhaskell/stack/issues/116
  - mightybyte 11y ago
    Ahh, my mistake. Cabal's solver is in the cabal-install package and since stack doesn't depend on it I assumed it wasn't tackling that problem. Since it's actually shelling out to the cabal executable for its solving needs it still pretty much fits the definition of porcelain.

beefsack 11y ago

URL appears to have changed to https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/06/announcing-first-public-beta-stack https://www.fpcomplete.com/blog/2015/06/announcing-first-pub...

rrradical 11y ago

I assume this is too green to work with cross-compilation (to arm built from x86, for example), but does anyone know if that support is planned? I did some haskell work with iphone in the past, and it was a pain to go from testing locally to testing on device. Everything (including dependencies) had to be rebuilt. This would solve my multipackage woes, but only if it could separate platforms.

codygman 11y ago
I've been using docker for cross compilation.
- rrradical 11y ago
  That...is a great idea. Thanks!

kyllo 11y ago

Stack is freaking awesome (brings compile times down dramatically, prevents cabal hell) but I'm sad that it doesn't seem to work with emacs haskell-mode and yesod-bin yet (because those tools depend on a .cabal dir). Stack support for those tools can't come soon enough!