5 ms·

So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender norm?

by nandemo 11y ago

mootothemax 11y ago
So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender norm? No, that's not what I'm saying, nor what I believe the program is saying either. To my mind, everyone likes fun with distortion, and colouring the relevant guitars pink helps break down the "pink is for girls" gender norm, nothing more, nothing less. Actually, being perfectly honest, I'd never even heard of "boys like distortion" as a gender norm; is that a thing?
- tdkl 11y ago
  > To my mind, everyone likes fun with distortion, and colouring the relevant guitars pink helps break down the "pink is for girls" gender norm, nothing more, nothing less. What if boys prefer different colors then pink ? Dat oppresion.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >I'd never even heard of "boys like distortion" as a gender norm; is that a thing? It obviously IS a thing. Check out the predominantly buyers of distortion pedals, or the near absolute majority of workshippers of "shredding" guitarists and heavy players. Also check any magazine about those kind of things, incudings any advertisments of heavy guitar gear, amps and distortion pedals. You will of course find 2-3 counter-examples. You'd be hard-pressed to find 10, much less 50.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Are you correcting for low representation of women in those magazines anyway?
    - coldtea 11y ago
      Is the low representation based on that publishers of said magazines not liking women's money [1], or that there aren't enough women players buying those magazines? [1] Especially considering that women are the most sought after group by advertisers/marketeers, even more so than men.
  - tjr 11y ago
    I've not researched statistics on this, but anecdotally, I've observed more men than women playing musical instruments in general.
    - joeriel 11y ago
      What are you observing? If you are talking about rock instruments, you are probably correct. My son is highly involved in his high school band (concert and marching), and the gender breakdown is very instrument specific. A lot more girls play flute and clarinet while a lot more boys play sousaphone, trombone, and percussion. Part of it is physical - not that many girls can march around with a heavy sousaphone. But I do think there is a bias that pushes girls and boys at a young age when starting out towards certain instruments.
      - tjr 11y ago
        I'm observing my own personally biased sample set. :-) - I played in a jazz band in college: across all of the department jazz bands, probably 95% male participants. - Attending the local symphony: approximately half and half, and I do seem to find the male/female ratio in classical music performances tends to be more balanced. - Perusing musical instrument stores across the country: predominantly male shoppers. - Listening to recorded music: I don't consciously (or, I think, even unconsciously) select music based on the sex of the artist. Most music I've listened to has been produced either mostly or entirely by male participants. More specifically, I listen to a lot of jazz and jazz-related genres of music; it's rare that I even encounter a female performer in those genres. (Rare, as in, maybe 5-10% of the time.) - Playing music in local bands: most other participants have been male. I personally suspect that high school band participation is, at least in some cases, driven by external motivators besides intrinsic musical interest. In my (again anecdotal) observations, many people who were actively involved in high school bands put their instruments away more or less permanently after high school. Anyway, again, I have no concrete statistical data, and I certainly agree that high school participation is more balanced.
- falcolas 11y ago
  I doubt they intentionally colored the guitars; they bought the guitars and some were pink, so they decided to attach the distortion to those as a side effect. Children size guitars are frequently brightly colored, some of which are a brilliant pepto-bismol pink. By giving the children a choice of not only sound but color, they're sticking with some good punk traditions, IMHO.
hluska 11y ago
I have never heard that boys particularly like distortion and certainly do not think it is a gender norm. Heck, many of my favourite shoegaze bands have women as very prominent members and creative forces... I somehow doubt that you play guitar, so I should also point out that playing a heavily distorted guitar is tremendously fun for anyone. Guitar is the toughest instrument I've ever played badly and I still think it's great fun.
- nandemo 11y ago
  I listen to metal and stoner rock, from the top of my mind I can think of only 2 bands that include women (Acid King and Electric Wizard). > I somehow doubt that you play guitar, so I should also point out that playing a heavily distorted guitar is tremendously fun for anyone. Wait, what? How the hell you concluded that from my simple assumption (which might be correct or not) that there's a boys-like-distortion gender norm? I suppose we have a different understanding of what a gender norm is.
  - hluska 11y ago
    You wrote, "So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender norm?" I guess I misunderstood that, but it really sounds like you named a boys-like-distortion gender norm because you think it exists. I disagree because I have been drawn to guitars since I was in my teens and I've gotten into way too many bands that rely upon women. My friend Shawn introduced me to an Acid King cd the last time he was in town and I have been a fan since. I'm always glad to hear someone mention them as they're on my 'must see live' list. There's a really neat doomy stoner band called Black Moth that has come out with some good stuff. They're sort of like Sabbath with female vocals.
    - nandemo 11y ago
      I think it exists, but a gender norm is a social construct i.e. there are certain expectations that boys should behave like this and girls should behave like that. When I say such a gender norm exists, I'm not implying that it's a biological thing or that boys are better at this and girls are better at that, or that I agree with that particular norm. Sorry if it sounded like that. I'll check Black Moth, thanks for the recommendation.
DanBC 11y ago
Everyone likes distortion. And it's not just breaking "pink is for girls", but also "pink is not for boys"; something that children enforce pretty strictly.
- s_kilk 11y ago
  >> Everyone likes distortion. It's a fact. Play a copy of "Sleep's Holy Mountain" for someone, then show them some Kenny Rogers. Note the results.
- coldtea 11y ago
  >Everyone likes distortion. Citation needed. Let's compare girl bands with heavy distortion compared to male bands as such.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    Fuck me it's like it's 1992 again with the "women can't rock' bullshit spewed out by NME. Search for butt-dumb on this page as a bit of background: http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/i-love-1993 http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/i-love...
    - coldtea 11y ago
      Well, some can rock. Memphis Minie. Jannis Joplin. Kim Deal. Most don't. Are we making observations from the majority or from abstract principles?
      - cholantesh 11y ago
        You're conflating can and do, so neither.
        coldtea 11y ago
        I'm not conflating it, but perhaps you are. Never said women can't. The whole question was about whether women DO (in the same numbers) as men. Specifically whether women like distortion as much as men.
im3w1l 11y ago
Music machinery made a post[1] on what men and women listen to on Spotify. It has 40 most popular artists for either genre, 20 most gender skewed artists, and 12 most gender skewed genres. I haven't gone through and annotated each and every one of them, but at a glance it seems neither has a lot of distortion at the top 40. But in the male-skewed genres/artists there is a lot more distortion than in the female-skewed. [1] http://musicmachinery.com/2014/02/10/gender-specific-listening/ http://musicmachinery.com/2014/02/10/gender-specific-listeni...
- protonfish 11y ago
  Nice article. I was shocked by how much gender preferences aligned with the artists gender, and how I didn't recognize 90% of the female biased artists. What's going on there? I don't know. Also, it seems like artists preferred by the gentler sex are also targeted to young people. Does this mean that adult women are cool with kid music, or does it mean the majority of female listeners are young, or something else? Again, don't know.

So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender norm?

by nandemo 11y ago

So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender norm?

So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender norm? No, that's not what I'm saying, nor what I believe the program is saying either. To my mind, everyone likes fun with distortion, and colouring the relevant guitars pink helps break down the "pink is for girls" gender norm, nothing more, nothing less. Actually, being perfectly honest, I'd never even heard of "boys like distortion" as a gender norm; is that a thing?

tdkl 11y ago
> To my mind, everyone likes fun with distortion, and colouring the relevant guitars pink helps break down the "pink is for girls" gender norm, nothing more, nothing less. What if boys prefer different colors then pink ? Dat oppresion.
coldtea 11y ago
>I'd never even heard of "boys like distortion" as a gender norm; is that a thing? It obviously IS a thing. Check out the predominantly buyers of distortion pedals, or the near absolute majority of workshippers of "shredding" guitarists and heavy players. Also check any magazine about those kind of things, incudings any advertisments of heavy guitar gear, amps and distortion pedals. You will of course find 2-3 counter-examples. You'd be hard-pressed to find 10, much less 50.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Are you correcting for low representation of women in those magazines anyway?
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Is the low representation based on that publishers of said magazines not liking women's money [1], or that there aren't enough women players buying those magazines? [1] Especially considering that women are the most sought after group by advertisers/marketeers, even more so than men.
- tjr 11y ago
  I've not researched statistics on this, but anecdotally, I've observed more men than women playing musical instruments in general.
  - joeriel 11y ago
    What are you observing? If you are talking about rock instruments, you are probably correct. My son is highly involved in his high school band (concert and marching), and the gender breakdown is very instrument specific. A lot more girls play flute and clarinet while a lot more boys play sousaphone, trombone, and percussion. Part of it is physical - not that many girls can march around with a heavy sousaphone. But I do think there is a bias that pushes girls and boys at a young age when starting out towards certain instruments.
    - tjr 11y ago
      I'm observing my own personally biased sample set. :-) - I played in a jazz band in college: across all of the department jazz bands, probably 95% male participants. - Attending the local symphony: approximately half and half, and I do seem to find the male/female ratio in classical music performances tends to be more balanced. - Perusing musical instrument stores across the country: predominantly male shoppers. - Listening to recorded music: I don't consciously (or, I think, even unconsciously) select music based on the sex of the artist. Most music I've listened to has been produced either mostly or entirely by male participants. More specifically, I listen to a lot of jazz and jazz-related genres of music; it's rare that I even encounter a female performer in those genres. (Rare, as in, maybe 5-10% of the time.) - Playing music in local bands: most other participants have been male. I personally suspect that high school band participation is, at least in some cases, driven by external motivators besides intrinsic musical interest. In my (again anecdotal) observations, many people who were actively involved in high school bands put their instruments away more or less permanently after high school. Anyway, again, I have no concrete statistical data, and I certainly agree that high school participation is more balanced.
falcolas 11y ago
I doubt they intentionally colored the guitars; they bought the guitars and some were pink, so they decided to attach the distortion to those as a side effect. Children size guitars are frequently brightly colored, some of which are a brilliant pepto-bismol pink. By giving the children a choice of not only sound but color, they're sticking with some good punk traditions, IMHO.

hluska 11y ago

I have never heard that boys particularly like distortion and certainly do not think it is a gender norm. Heck, many of my favourite shoegaze bands have women as very prominent members and creative forces... I somehow doubt that you play guitar, so I should also point out that playing a heavily distorted guitar is tremendously fun for anyone. Guitar is the toughest instrument I've ever played badly and I still think it's great fun.

nandemo 11y ago
I listen to metal and stoner rock, from the top of my mind I can think of only 2 bands that include women (Acid King and Electric Wizard). > I somehow doubt that you play guitar, so I should also point out that playing a heavily distorted guitar is tremendously fun for anyone. Wait, what? How the hell you concluded that from my simple assumption (which might be correct or not) that there's a boys-like-distortion gender norm? I suppose we have a different understanding of what a gender norm is.
- hluska 11y ago
  You wrote, "So the boys-like-distortion gender norm trumps the pink-is-for-girls gender norm?" I guess I misunderstood that, but it really sounds like you named a boys-like-distortion gender norm because you think it exists. I disagree because I have been drawn to guitars since I was in my teens and I've gotten into way too many bands that rely upon women. My friend Shawn introduced me to an Acid King cd the last time he was in town and I have been a fan since. I'm always glad to hear someone mention them as they're on my 'must see live' list. There's a really neat doomy stoner band called Black Moth that has come out with some good stuff. They're sort of like Sabbath with female vocals.
  - nandemo 11y ago
    I think it exists, but a gender norm is a social construct i.e. there are certain expectations that boys should behave like this and girls should behave like that. When I say such a gender norm exists, I'm not implying that it's a biological thing or that boys are better at this and girls are better at that, or that I agree with that particular norm. Sorry if it sounded like that. I'll check Black Moth, thanks for the recommendation.

DanBC 11y ago

Everyone likes distortion. And it's not just breaking "pink is for girls", but also "pink is not for boys"; something that children enforce pretty strictly.

s_kilk 11y ago
>> Everyone likes distortion. It's a fact. Play a copy of "Sleep's Holy Mountain" for someone, then show them some Kenny Rogers. Note the results.
coldtea 11y ago
>Everyone likes distortion. Citation needed. Let's compare girl bands with heavy distortion compared to male bands as such.
- DanBC 11y ago
  Fuck me it's like it's 1992 again with the "women can't rock' bullshit spewed out by NME. Search for butt-dumb on this page as a bit of background: http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/i-love-1993 http://www.stylusmagazine.com/articles/weekly_article/i-love...
  - coldtea 11y ago
    Well, some can rock. Memphis Minie. Jannis Joplin. Kim Deal. Most don't. Are we making observations from the majority or from abstract principles?
    - cholantesh 11y ago
      You're conflating can and do, so neither.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        I'm not conflating it, but perhaps you are. Never said women can't. The whole question was about whether women DO (in the same numbers) as men. Specifically whether women like distortion as much as men.

im3w1l 11y ago

Music machinery made a post[1] on what men and women listen to on Spotify. It has 40 most popular artists for either genre, 20 most gender skewed artists, and 12 most gender skewed genres. I haven't gone through and annotated each and every one of them, but at a glance it seems neither has a lot of distortion at the top 40. But in the male-skewed genres/artists there is a lot more distortion than in the female-skewed. [1] http://musicmachinery.com/2014/02/10/gender-specific-listening/ http://musicmachinery.com/2014/02/10/gender-specific-listeni...

protonfish 11y ago
Nice article. I was shocked by how much gender preferences aligned with the artists gender, and how I didn't recognize 90% of the female biased artists. What's going on there? I don't know. Also, it seems like artists preferred by the gentler sex are also targeted to young people. Does this mean that adult women are cool with kid music, or does it mean the majority of female listeners are young, or something else? Again, don't know.