4 ms·

the opposite: I would be concerned if my 5 year old kid was pushed by someone to become a rock musician. On Earth we only need that many rock stars, and there

by gbog 11y ago

the opposite: I would be concerned if my 5 year old kid was pushed by someone to become a rock musician. On Earth we only need that many rock stars, and there is already an intense competition over the only few places available. I know many musicians that didn't get enough success and have hard time earning food money. I suspect that a kid whose fate is to become a musician will find a way to become one. This do not need to be encouraged even only a little. I find it more responsible to give kids the most "normal" (classic) education, while keeping doors open for later. It is easier to pivot from postman to writer (Bukowski) than from pretend rock star to bank teller.

hedgew 11y ago
On the other hand, sociometric status can significantly increase subjective well-being, and playing in a cool band is one of the most effective ways to gain status for kids and teenagers.
toothbrush 11y ago
Playing music isn't about becoming a rock star, a bit like a startup shouldn't be about becoming the next WhatsApp. Being able / confident enough to pick up a guitar and sing at a campfire is a very realistic and rewarding goal.
- _yosefk 11y ago
  What's a realistic and rewarding goal for a startup then? :-) (Picking up a keyboard and writing some code at a campfire?.. might not go down all that well.)
  - hluska 11y ago
    Launch a product and get ten customers?
hluska 11y ago
Do you understand that this is an extra-curricular activity and not an actual primary school? If you understand that point and still balk at a program like this because it doesn't 'keep enough doors open' (???), I strongly encourage you to readjust this mindset before you have children. And, if you do have children, I am even more vehement that you need to change your tune. Small children deserve to use their imaginations and dream the wildest dreams imaginable. They deserve this not only because they are little kids and childhood is brutally short, but also because their brains are highly plastic and they are rapidly developing cognitive skills that adults take for granted. Children who are interested in the arts absolutely deserve encouragement because every single child on earth deserves to be encouraged. Children deserve to be encouraged to be the best versions of themselves that they can be.
- gbog 11y ago
  I do encourage imagination, mostly by giving the example. But this means building weird things with Lego, it doesn't mean pushing babies on a stage with sunglasses and fake ovations by the parents. In our difficult times living a happy life most often means living far away from the media and the society of spectacle. Nothing bothers me more than the exhibitions of those little prodigy on t.v., it is rewarding for the parents only and steals away childhood from the kids.
  - eropple 11y ago
    I know people who have their kids in this program. It has nothing to do with prodigy culture or even really about the actual performative aspects in front of other people--it's about encouraging a love of music and feeling good about making something. That you're getting salty about it is, to be honest, kinda really weird.
    - gbog 11y ago
      I know it is not a very common way to think about parents responsibilities nowadays, but it was more so in the past. And I think it was reasonable to ask children to first pursue normal "un-sexy" education before getting more "creative", because in the end the kid will have to get a job, and choosing paths where jobs are not too competitive and pay the rent makes sense. A good friend of mine has his preteen daughter embarqued into writing a book, and this is ridiculous. Kids do not have to be creative, nobody has to be creative. Being creative is a gift (or a curse) that only a few have, and when it is strong enough to be a vocation, it will find its way, even against a classic (boring) education. Also, I hate the star system where a few crasy people are given as examples to the populace, while in fact they have most often a miserable life.
      - hluska 11y ago
        Okay but once again, do you understand that this is an extra-curricular program and not a primary school??? That means that it is recreation outside of school hours. It is recreation outside of school hours where kids are encouraged to be creative, to take risks, to perform in front of people and to tell stories. Do you force your children to spend their recreation time working on things that will directly result in a job? I will be blunt. The way that you are talking has me feeling serious concern about your children. Being creative is not 'a gift that only a few have' - every child has an imagination and I have never met a person who cannot come up with a new idea.
DanBC 11y ago
People have hobbies. Hobbies are probably important, especially if there's a social aspect to them. They're also fun. This doesn't seem to be pushy parents giving their five your old children pushup bras and entering them into pageants, or yelling insults from the bleachers.
GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
Since when is music not part of a classical education?
facepalm 11y ago
I'm pretty sure that if you never expose kids to musical instruments, their likelihood of becoming rock stars is much lower. Classical education was created to produce worker drones for the industry. There is nothing in classical education that would help you become a rock star, except perhaps the pent up anger and frustration. There are also plenty of example of people who are famous in their job of having started really young. It's probably not the only way, but it helps - and in some areas it might be the only way. Finally, the point is not that the kids should become actual rock stars later on, but that they learn to lose inhibition, be creative, and have fun (at least that's what I would hope for when signing up my kids).
soylentcola 11y ago
As a counterpoint, people pay to send their kids to football camp even though we only need so many NFL stars or people pursuing that career. When I was a kid my folks paid for me to attend summer/day camp one year (some of the summer was day camp and some was overnight camp). We mostly just played outdoor sports and games, did arts and crafts, and more often than not, just sorta screwed around because we were kids and it was fun to screw around and play with stuff. I never pursued a career in any of the things I played with back then but I did learn to interact with other kids and participate in some fun activities. If anything, the part that sucked was that the activities were more things that we weren't always interested in. If I had the choice between dodge ball or learning to play basic rock drums, I'd have picked drums in a second. I think in the end, these camps and groups exist because people want their kids to be occupied and engaged. There are plenty of parents who have to work and don't have the skills or aptitudes to spend weeks playing soccer or music with their kids. If someone starts a summer camp or a rock band camp as a way to make a living while providing this service to people eager to pay for it, I can't see too much wrong with it. It's certainly a shame that not every kid has the opportunity to spend their free time having fun and trying out new activities but that's a whole other issue. In general, I think I'm a bit jealous that even as an adult I don't have the opportunity to have someone "coach" a group of other music enthusiasts past the pitfalls of trying to write and perform music.

by gbog 11y ago

hedgew 11y ago

On the other hand, sociometric status can significantly increase subjective well-being, and playing in a cool band is one of the most effective ways to gain status for kids and teenagers.

toothbrush 11y ago

Playing music isn't about becoming a rock star, a bit like a startup shouldn't be about becoming the next WhatsApp. Being able / confident enough to pick up a guitar and sing at a campfire is a very realistic and rewarding goal.

_yosefk 11y ago
What's a realistic and rewarding goal for a startup then? :-) (Picking up a keyboard and writing some code at a campfire?.. might not go down all that well.)
- hluska 11y ago
  Launch a product and get ten customers?

hluska 11y ago

Do you understand that this is an extra-curricular activity and not an actual primary school? If you understand that point and still balk at a program like this because it doesn't 'keep enough doors open' (???), I strongly encourage you to readjust this mindset before you have children. And, if you do have children, I am even more vehement that you need to change your tune. Small children deserve to use their imaginations and dream the wildest dreams imaginable. They deserve this not only because they are little kids and childhood is brutally short, but also because their brains are highly plastic and they are rapidly developing cognitive skills that adults take for granted. Children who are interested in the arts absolutely deserve encouragement because every single child on earth deserves to be encouraged. Children deserve to be encouraged to be the best versions of themselves that they can be.

gbog 11y ago
I do encourage imagination, mostly by giving the example. But this means building weird things with Lego, it doesn't mean pushing babies on a stage with sunglasses and fake ovations by the parents. In our difficult times living a happy life most often means living far away from the media and the society of spectacle. Nothing bothers me more than the exhibitions of those little prodigy on t.v., it is rewarding for the parents only and steals away childhood from the kids.
- eropple 11y ago
  I know people who have their kids in this program. It has nothing to do with prodigy culture or even really about the actual performative aspects in front of other people--it's about encouraging a love of music and feeling good about making something. That you're getting salty about it is, to be honest, kinda really weird.
  - gbog 11y ago
    I know it is not a very common way to think about parents responsibilities nowadays, but it was more so in the past. And I think it was reasonable to ask children to first pursue normal "un-sexy" education before getting more "creative", because in the end the kid will have to get a job, and choosing paths where jobs are not too competitive and pay the rent makes sense. A good friend of mine has his preteen daughter embarqued into writing a book, and this is ridiculous. Kids do not have to be creative, nobody has to be creative. Being creative is a gift (or a curse) that only a few have, and when it is strong enough to be a vocation, it will find its way, even against a classic (boring) education. Also, I hate the star system where a few crasy people are given as examples to the populace, while in fact they have most often a miserable life.
    - hluska 11y ago
      Okay but once again, do you understand that this is an extra-curricular program and not a primary school??? That means that it is recreation outside of school hours. It is recreation outside of school hours where kids are encouraged to be creative, to take risks, to perform in front of people and to tell stories. Do you force your children to spend their recreation time working on things that will directly result in a job? I will be blunt. The way that you are talking has me feeling serious concern about your children. Being creative is not 'a gift that only a few have' - every child has an imagination and I have never met a person who cannot come up with a new idea.

DanBC 11y ago

People have hobbies. Hobbies are probably important, especially if there's a social aspect to them. They're also fun. This doesn't seem to be pushy parents giving their five your old children pushup bras and entering them into pageants, or yelling insults from the bleachers.

GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago

Since when is music not part of a classical education?

facepalm 11y ago

I'm pretty sure that if you never expose kids to musical instruments, their likelihood of becoming rock stars is much lower. Classical education was created to produce worker drones for the industry. There is nothing in classical education that would help you become a rock star, except perhaps the pent up anger and frustration. There are also plenty of example of people who are famous in their job of having started really young. It's probably not the only way, but it helps - and in some areas it might be the only way. Finally, the point is not that the kids should become actual rock stars later on, but that they learn to lose inhibition, be creative, and have fun (at least that's what I would hope for when signing up my kids).

soylentcola 11y ago

As a counterpoint, people pay to send their kids to football camp even though we only need so many NFL stars or people pursuing that career. When I was a kid my folks paid for me to attend summer/day camp one year (some of the summer was day camp and some was overnight camp). We mostly just played outdoor sports and games, did arts and crafts, and more often than not, just sorta screwed around because we were kids and it was fun to screw around and play with stuff. I never pursued a career in any of the things I played with back then but I did learn to interact with other kids and participate in some fun activities. If anything, the part that sucked was that the activities were more things that we weren't always interested in. If I had the choice between dodge ball or learning to play basic rock drums, I'd have picked drums in a second. I think in the end, these camps and groups exist because people want their kids to be occupied and engaged. There are plenty of parents who have to work and don't have the skills or aptitudes to spend weeks playing soccer or music with their kids. If someone starts a summer camp or a rock band camp as a way to make a living while providing this service to people eager to pay for it, I can't see too much wrong with it. It's certainly a shame that not every kid has the opportunity to spend their free time having fun and trying out new activities but that's a whole other issue. In general, I think I'm a bit jealous that even as an adult I don't have the opportunity to have someone "coach" a group of other music enthusiasts past the pitfalls of trying to write and perform music.