3 ms·

1, 4, 5, 6, and 7 are weasel words. What is "a lot"; what is "extensive"; how often is "on occasion"? They're not lies: they just mean nothing. 2 and 3 are fir

by basseq 11y ago

1, 4, 5, 6, and 7 are weasel words. What is "a lot"; what is "extensive"; how often is "on occasion"? They're not lies: they just mean nothing. 2 and 3 are firm statements: ask for them in writing. Even if they're not in an official employment contract, an email stating same might give you enough ammo for a Fraudulent Inducement Of Employment case (if push came to shove). Ask follow-up questions to get a quantitative answer based on past performance. Promises of future raises (or other future actions) are complete BS and should be treated as such.

slantyyz 11y ago
>> They're not lies: they just mean nothing. Everything in the article's list is a basically gratuitous promise. Things change -- the economy, the financial performance of the company, management, etc. Any change can be justification to nullify one or more of those promises. The easy way to see if the hiring company is lying? Ask them to put everything in the contract, and put --numbers-- where applicable (30 days of training at the company's expense per year, ability to work at home 2 out of 5 business days, budget to hire help if workload exceeds 50h/week, etc.). It'll be pretty clear whether they're lying or telling the truth if they start balking at specifics.
- fredkbloggs 11y ago
  No one is going to put that stuff in a contract unless it's a senior management position. The company cares much less about hiring you, no matter who you are, than about capping its liability. If you do manage to get such terms written in, you can bet that the company will still have no obligation to you as it can simply terminate the contract at any time without compensation. Even in a strong market, there are plenty of other candidates out there who will either value the gratuitous promises or simply ignore them, so there's no need to risk any real contractual liability just to hire you.
  - slantyyz 11y ago
    > No one is going to put that stuff in a contract unless it's a senior management position. Of course they won't. In all fairness, I don't think anyone who has been around the block would be tricked by any of the items in the list, but I'm sure a lot of less experienced job hunters could be. SO, if you are a person who weighs a decision on these gratuitous promises what is the best course of action to see if the prospective employer is lying? Probably to ask for all that stuff spelled out in detail in the employment contract. Sure, you may not get hired for the reasons you cited, but it'll become pretty clear that those promises were empty too, and you'll handle the next opportunity differently.

by basseq 11y ago

slantyyz 11y ago

>> They're not lies: they just mean nothing. Everything in the article's list is a basically gratuitous promise. Things change -- the economy, the financial performance of the company, management, etc. Any change can be justification to nullify one or more of those promises. The easy way to see if the hiring company is lying? Ask them to put everything in the contract, and put --numbers-- where applicable (30 days of training at the company's expense per year, ability to work at home 2 out of 5 business days, budget to hire help if workload exceeds 50h/week, etc.). It'll be pretty clear whether they're lying or telling the truth if they start balking at specifics.

fredkbloggs 11y ago
No one is going to put that stuff in a contract unless it's a senior management position. The company cares much less about hiring you, no matter who you are, than about capping its liability. If you do manage to get such terms written in, you can bet that the company will still have no obligation to you as it can simply terminate the contract at any time without compensation. Even in a strong market, there are plenty of other candidates out there who will either value the gratuitous promises or simply ignore them, so there's no need to risk any real contractual liability just to hire you.
- slantyyz 11y ago
  > No one is going to put that stuff in a contract unless it's a senior management position. Of course they won't. In all fairness, I don't think anyone who has been around the block would be tricked by any of the items in the list, but I'm sure a lot of less experienced job hunters could be. SO, if you are a person who weighs a decision on these gratuitous promises what is the best course of action to see if the prospective employer is lying? Probably to ask for all that stuff spelled out in detail in the employment contract. Sure, you may not get hired for the reasons you cited, but it'll become pretty clear that those promises were empty too, and you'll handle the next opportunity differently.