6 ms·

I have a hunch future retail self driving cars will have the same restrictions, unfortunately.

stephengillie 11y ago
Who wants to actually own their own bare metal anymore? Why do you want to be tied to this specific server or car, this specific package of molecules? The SPSD Car[1] will not be something that can be owned by individuals. You can use your smartphone to request a pickup, which will be fulfilled by any of a number of nearby cars. You'll lease a license to be transported in one car, and the app will automatically transfer that license to the car that's fulfilling your trip. Your Leased License to be Transported in a Car will only apply for the duration of the trip, and gives you no rights or responsibilities to the underlying vehicle. [1] (Solar Powered Self Driving)
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  We are a long way from that. In a cab, its somebody's job to keep it clean and safe. An auto-car may arrive with dog droppings, vomit, trash in the back seat with slashed upholstery and condom wrappers. How is that going to be managed?
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    It will be managed by whatever company owns the cabs and rents them out. They may subcontract that to car detailing businesses.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Sure, once a day or once a week. A cabbie is right on any problem. Or they don't get any custom. An auto-car could be disgusting for hours or days.
      - stephengillie 11y ago
        Or we can try to do OCR with baggies of trash and other refuse. When people get out, have cameras inside take a photo and somehow tell if the car is clean or not? Then maybe deduct a cleaning fee for leaving behind garbage? The car could detect if there's garbage, and maybe use some kind of air sensor to tell if it stinks. If it's clean, it would go back into the motor pool, if not it would auto-drive to a detailer's. (Who wants to help me start a robotic auto detailing company?)
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        How about if its just disgusting? Condom wrappers and stains on the seat. Hard to detect automatically. Cameras are missing the point - back to human monitoring which is far from automatic.
        stephengillie 11y ago
        Yes, yes. Since we can't cover all edge cases right now, let's abandon the concept completely! "Disgusting" is a normative, qualitative term. Can you put it into calculable, quantitative terms? I fail to see how cameras are missing the point. Are you saying that all condom wrappers will be the exact same color as the upholstery? Are you saying the stains on the seat will be the same color as the upholstery? (Are they still stains if they colormatch the material?) So we take some before photos, and do machine learning analysis. And we can have people rate the car, or even refuse a car, with the app. Yes, you'd have to have a motor pool with idle cars to get this to work correctly, but queue theory says you'd need idle cars during non-peak hours to meet peak demand anyway.
        maxerickson 11y ago
        I wonder if most of them will have upholstery, or if they will have something a little easier to point a pressure washer at.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Whoa, sorry, didn't mean to push any hot button. Just exploring the problem space, no emotional content intended. If a car service is automatic, there are no people guiding its normal operation. Putting cameras back in would mean, I thought, humans to monitor those cameras. That's adding back much of the cost of cabbies. So maybe the camera can be automated too! That's a good idea. In fact, just their existence may be enough to quash most objectionable activity (snogging, urinating, allowing pet messes, littering). In the end whatever the scheme has to be practical, not just possible. Its the details that sink projects. Like, how to keep the kids from using an autocar as a makeout pit. And so on.
  - enjo 11y ago
    I think this isn't such a big issue. I use Car2Go all the time, never had any of those things in a car I drove.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Maybe its different when you're driving, vs chilling in the back of an auto-car for a half-hour with your sweety. I think young folks will be very creative filling the time.
      - stephengillie 11y ago
        I think you're obsessed with this one exception. So I'll state your concern outright: How do you prevent people from having sex in an auto-car? Well, how do you prevent people from having sex in rental cars? First, people that can get a rental car usually can get more comfortable accommodations for other activities. Second, the rental car is only in the renter's control for a short duration, and that duration isn't cheap. Third, the rental agency will hold the renter responsible for any damages caused by this activity. I'm sure that Zipcar, Car2Go, Enterprise, Avis, and others have solutions for these situations.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Its not that one thing - its a stand-in for the issue of idle folks in a private space, that they don't own or have responsibility for. There's no other transportation option in existence that combines privacy and anonymity without the requirement to drive. Nookie is only the beginning of what idle folks will get up to. Rental cars are not the same - we're supposed to be using auto-cars as an everyday thing, to get to work or school or shopping or anything really. Not just on a business trip. Actually, I can think of one similar place where people have time on their hands in a private space - public restroom stalls. And look how wonderfully that works out for everybody.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - pixl97 11y ago
    >n auto-car may arrive with dog droppings, vomit, trash in the back seat with slashed upholstery and condom wrappers. How is that going to be managed? Civil fines. Record the cars under use. When people don't clean them they receive a cleaning bill at the end of the month. When they don't pay it, they don't ride. When the car is dirty have it dispatch back to the management facility for cleaning and insurance documentation.
  - giarc 11y ago
    I use Car2Go (a car sharing program) extensively. I've never seen any garbage or body fluids. I once found a females sweater left in the back. I don't think it will be as big of a problem as you think.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Isn't that more like a rental? You're driving the whole time. Different from idle, unsupervised teenagers in the back seat for a half hour.
      - giarc 11y ago
        There's a passenger seat in a Car2Go. They could just make the previous owner responsible for cleanliness (a fine or fee if dirty) and I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.
- ctdonath 11y ago
  I do. I want to store stuff in it (my assorted gear I want nearby wherever I go but won't be lugging around every time I leave the vehicle), I need specific features (say, child seats), I want to customize it (be it bumper stickers or off-roading bumpers), I want to know that there WILL be a suitable vehicle ready when I need transport ("whadayamean there are no vehicles available with two child seats? my girl needs a doctor NOW but an ambulance is super-expensive overkill!" or "it's 1AM and I have to wait 15 minutes for one to arrive? with my own car I could be home in 15 minutes."), and I don't want to deal with consequences of strangers driving it before me (everything from annoying seat settings to vandalism & bodily fluids). Sounds like you're thinking of a self-driving taxi, overlooking the many reasons why people don't want taxis (not deeply relying on others being a huge one for many of us).
  - stephengillie 11y ago
    Yours is a use-case that I often forget. For you, a car isn't just a conveyance. It's also a storage locker. And a second home, in some ways.
    - ctdonath 11y ago
      Such is a way of life for most American drivers. We spend a LOT of time in our cars. The freedom of "mine, now" transportation is...visceral.
  - Frondo 11y ago
    I don't think anyone's trying to pass laws banning owning one's own vehicle once self-driving cars become ubiquitous. I imagine you'll always be able to own your own car, and store whatever in it. (I also suspect your insurance will start to climb through the roof once self-driving cars do become ubiquitous, because computers will be able to be far better drivers than people, once the software's in good working condition.)
    - ctdonath 11y ago
      Who said anything about banning? Parent post just asked why anyone would want to own a car.
on_and_off 11y ago
transportation might well become a service -> you need a car ? use an uber-like app in order to have one arrive soonish. That would make that restriction moot.
- thomasfoster96 11y ago
  That uber-like app will probably be Uber.

Who wants to actually own their own bare metal anymore? Why do you want to be tied to this specific server or car, this specific package of molecules? The SPSD Car[1] will not be something that can be owned by individuals. You can use your smartphone to request a pickup, which will be fulfilled by any of a number of nearby cars. You'll lease a license to be transported in one car, and the app will automatically transfer that license to the car that's fulfilling your trip. Your Leased License to be Transported in a Car will only apply for the duration of the trip, and gives you no rights or responsibilities to the underlying vehicle. [1] (Solar Powered Self Driving)

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
We are a long way from that. In a cab, its somebody's job to keep it clean and safe. An auto-car may arrive with dog droppings, vomit, trash in the back seat with slashed upholstery and condom wrappers. How is that going to be managed?
- stephengillie 11y ago
  It will be managed by whatever company owns the cabs and rents them out. They may subcontract that to car detailing businesses.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Sure, once a day or once a week. A cabbie is right on any problem. Or they don't get any custom. An auto-car could be disgusting for hours or days.
    - stephengillie 11y ago
      Or we can try to do OCR with baggies of trash and other refuse. When people get out, have cameras inside take a photo and somehow tell if the car is clean or not? Then maybe deduct a cleaning fee for leaving behind garbage? The car could detect if there's garbage, and maybe use some kind of air sensor to tell if it stinks. If it's clean, it would go back into the motor pool, if not it would auto-drive to a detailer's. (Who wants to help me start a robotic auto detailing company?)
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        How about if its just disgusting? Condom wrappers and stains on the seat. Hard to detect automatically. Cameras are missing the point - back to human monitoring which is far from automatic.
        stephengillie 11y ago
        Yes, yes. Since we can't cover all edge cases right now, let's abandon the concept completely! "Disgusting" is a normative, qualitative term. Can you put it into calculable, quantitative terms? I fail to see how cameras are missing the point. Are you saying that all condom wrappers will be the exact same color as the upholstery? Are you saying the stains on the seat will be the same color as the upholstery? (Are they still stains if they colormatch the material?) So we take some before photos, and do machine learning analysis. And we can have people rate the car, or even refuse a car, with the app. Yes, you'd have to have a motor pool with idle cars to get this to work correctly, but queue theory says you'd need idle cars during non-peak hours to meet peak demand anyway.
        maxerickson 11y ago
        I wonder if most of them will have upholstery, or if they will have something a little easier to point a pressure washer at.
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Whoa, sorry, didn't mean to push any hot button. Just exploring the problem space, no emotional content intended. If a car service is automatic, there are no people guiding its normal operation. Putting cameras back in would mean, I thought, humans to monitor those cameras. That's adding back much of the cost of cabbies. So maybe the camera can be automated too! That's a good idea. In fact, just their existence may be enough to quash most objectionable activity (snogging, urinating, allowing pet messes, littering). In the end whatever the scheme has to be practical, not just possible. Its the details that sink projects. Like, how to keep the kids from using an autocar as a makeout pit. And so on.
- enjo 11y ago
  I think this isn't such a big issue. I use Car2Go all the time, never had any of those things in a car I drove.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Maybe its different when you're driving, vs chilling in the back of an auto-car for a half-hour with your sweety. I think young folks will be very creative filling the time.
    - stephengillie 11y ago
      I think you're obsessed with this one exception. So I'll state your concern outright: How do you prevent people from having sex in an auto-car? Well, how do you prevent people from having sex in rental cars? First, people that can get a rental car usually can get more comfortable accommodations for other activities. Second, the rental car is only in the renter's control for a short duration, and that duration isn't cheap. Third, the rental agency will hold the renter responsible for any damages caused by this activity. I'm sure that Zipcar, Car2Go, Enterprise, Avis, and others have solutions for these situations.
      - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Its not that one thing - its a stand-in for the issue of idle folks in a private space, that they don't own or have responsibility for. There's no other transportation option in existence that combines privacy and anonymity without the requirement to drive. Nookie is only the beginning of what idle folks will get up to. Rental cars are not the same - we're supposed to be using auto-cars as an everyday thing, to get to work or school or shopping or anything really. Not just on a business trip. Actually, I can think of one similar place where people have time on their hands in a private space - public restroom stalls. And look how wonderfully that works out for everybody.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- pixl97 11y ago
  >n auto-car may arrive with dog droppings, vomit, trash in the back seat with slashed upholstery and condom wrappers. How is that going to be managed? Civil fines. Record the cars under use. When people don't clean them they receive a cleaning bill at the end of the month. When they don't pay it, they don't ride. When the car is dirty have it dispatch back to the management facility for cleaning and insurance documentation.
- giarc 11y ago
  I use Car2Go (a car sharing program) extensively. I've never seen any garbage or body fluids. I once found a females sweater left in the back. I don't think it will be as big of a problem as you think.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Isn't that more like a rental? You're driving the whole time. Different from idle, unsupervised teenagers in the back seat for a half hour.
    - giarc 11y ago
      There's a passenger seat in a Car2Go. They could just make the previous owner responsible for cleanliness (a fine or fee if dirty) and I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem.
ctdonath 11y ago
I do. I want to store stuff in it (my assorted gear I want nearby wherever I go but won't be lugging around every time I leave the vehicle), I need specific features (say, child seats), I want to customize it (be it bumper stickers or off-roading bumpers), I want to know that there WILL be a suitable vehicle ready when I need transport ("whadayamean there are no vehicles available with two child seats? my girl needs a doctor NOW but an ambulance is super-expensive overkill!" or "it's 1AM and I have to wait 15 minutes for one to arrive? with my own car I could be home in 15 minutes."), and I don't want to deal with consequences of strangers driving it before me (everything from annoying seat settings to vandalism & bodily fluids). Sounds like you're thinking of a self-driving taxi, overlooking the many reasons why people don't want taxis (not deeply relying on others being a huge one for many of us).
- stephengillie 11y ago
  Yours is a use-case that I often forget. For you, a car isn't just a conveyance. It's also a storage locker. And a second home, in some ways.
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    Such is a way of life for most American drivers. We spend a LOT of time in our cars. The freedom of "mine, now" transportation is...visceral.
- Frondo 11y ago
  I don't think anyone's trying to pass laws banning owning one's own vehicle once self-driving cars become ubiquitous. I imagine you'll always be able to own your own car, and store whatever in it. (I also suspect your insurance will start to climb through the roof once self-driving cars do become ubiquitous, because computers will be able to be far better drivers than people, once the software's in good working condition.)
  - ctdonath 11y ago
    Who said anything about banning? Parent post just asked why anyone would want to own a car.

on_and_off 11y ago

transportation might well become a service -> you need a car ? use an uber-like app in order to have one arrive soonish. That would make that restriction moot.

thomasfoster96 11y ago
That uber-like app will probably be Uber.