5 ms·

I've done a few similar things at my previous employer. Basically, taken it upon myself to write internal reporting applications, to much success. I've also don

I've done a few similar things at my previous employer. Basically, taken it upon myself to write internal reporting applications, to much success. I've also done some other small things (AHK, etc..) which worked out well. Point is, I've been modestly bringing these up during interviews when asked what I've been doing the past few years. It is always glossed over. I don't think companies want or recognize that they want someone who will be able to handle these tasks. If they knew these tasks needed to be done, they'd hire for it, right? Seems some of the most important things that can be done for a company may be hidden to the executive team.

msandford 11y ago
I was fortunate to be a valued player on a small team. But what you're talking about is basically trying to hire yourself in as a tech exec when you're just applying for a job as a programmer. I think that's because management (generally) doesn't really want to hear that they've got a blind spot even if they do. Ultimately all you can really do is try and work your way into a situation where you have some kind of meaningful equity. Founder, co-founder, early hire, buy a piece of a company, whatever. That's the only way to really get rewarded for your skills; knowing enough about the state of the art to see what can be done better and also having the skills to see those projects through to completion and realizing the benefits thereof. I wish there was a job title for "good all-arounder with knowledge of the state of the art in a role with substantial self-direction", but I think that's probably "founder" or something. Or "owner of a very small business" maybe?
- vonmoltke 11y ago
  > I wish there was a job title for "good all-arounder with knowledge of the state of the art in a role with substantial self-direction", but I think that's probably "founder" or something. Or "owner of a very small business" maybe? That's the way I am drifting. I just can't seem to get in gear on my own. :(
  - odonnellryan 11y ago
    Why's that? I've been thinking about starting my own side company. It is a lot of work!
    - moron4hire 11y ago
      In my case, it's the "lot of work" issue that is the problem. It's really easy for me to ignore the work I don't understand very well (marketing) or don't enjoy very much (which is largely a function of not understanding very well) for raw programming. I have a couple of friends doing a startup in the same space in which I'm writing some software, and their software is nowhere near as far along as mine, yet I don't have anywhere near the "business development" that they do. I'm not there because it's too much work for one person and I've focused on the tech. Their tech isn't that great because it's too much work for one person and they've focused on the biz. Aaaaah, I just don't know. They're pretty inexperienced, mostly just straight out of college. I'd like to find one person who is as passionate and experienced about business development as I am about software development. Instead, I mostly get contacts from guys who've worked in government offices all their lives, looking for a free programmer to boss around on their "1 in a million idea".
      - infinite8s 11y ago
        Why don't you join forces with your friends? If your tech is as far advanced as their business development, it sounds like you could join as an equal founder.
        moron4hire 11y ago
        Well, they're pretty sold into their idea (which doesn't interest me) and they have one or two other people involved (so I'd be coming in as an outsider anyway). I've met their developer once and he seemed like a nice guy, though very inexperienced (not to speak ill, he's just young). So basically, they have a team together and I don't want to break them up, before their time, if that time should ever come. Some of it is selfishness on my part, too. I want as much ownership and control as I can keep, and I want it to be on my ideas. I've tried working on other people's ideas before and it just doesn't move me. I have a pretty clear vision of where I want to go, both tech and business. I guess I'd rather keep going slow right now than get side-tracked working on someone else's ideas. If their current project ever tanks, they might be interested in coming on board with me. I think we're both just trying to see where everything we're currently working on is going.

msandford 11y ago

I was fortunate to be a valued player on a small team. But what you're talking about is basically trying to hire yourself in as a tech exec when you're just applying for a job as a programmer. I think that's because management (generally) doesn't really want to hear that they've got a blind spot even if they do. Ultimately all you can really do is try and work your way into a situation where you have some kind of meaningful equity. Founder, co-founder, early hire, buy a piece of a company, whatever. That's the only way to really get rewarded for your skills; knowing enough about the state of the art to see what can be done better and also having the skills to see those projects through to completion and realizing the benefits thereof. I wish there was a job title for "good all-arounder with knowledge of the state of the art in a role with substantial self-direction", but I think that's probably "founder" or something. Or "owner of a very small business" maybe?

vonmoltke 11y ago
> I wish there was a job title for "good all-arounder with knowledge of the state of the art in a role with substantial self-direction", but I think that's probably "founder" or something. Or "owner of a very small business" maybe? That's the way I am drifting. I just can't seem to get in gear on my own. :(
- odonnellryan 11y ago
  Why's that? I've been thinking about starting my own side company. It is a lot of work!
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    In my case, it's the "lot of work" issue that is the problem. It's really easy for me to ignore the work I don't understand very well (marketing) or don't enjoy very much (which is largely a function of not understanding very well) for raw programming. I have a couple of friends doing a startup in the same space in which I'm writing some software, and their software is nowhere near as far along as mine, yet I don't have anywhere near the "business development" that they do. I'm not there because it's too much work for one person and I've focused on the tech. Their tech isn't that great because it's too much work for one person and they've focused on the biz. Aaaaah, I just don't know. They're pretty inexperienced, mostly just straight out of college. I'd like to find one person who is as passionate and experienced about business development as I am about software development. Instead, I mostly get contacts from guys who've worked in government offices all their lives, looking for a free programmer to boss around on their "1 in a million idea".
    - infinite8s 11y ago
      Why don't you join forces with your friends? If your tech is as far advanced as their business development, it sounds like you could join as an equal founder.
      - moron4hire 11y ago
        Well, they're pretty sold into their idea (which doesn't interest me) and they have one or two other people involved (so I'd be coming in as an outsider anyway). I've met their developer once and he seemed like a nice guy, though very inexperienced (not to speak ill, he's just young). So basically, they have a team together and I don't want to break them up, before their time, if that time should ever come. Some of it is selfishness on my part, too. I want as much ownership and control as I can keep, and I want it to be on my ideas. I've tried working on other people's ideas before and it just doesn't move me. I have a pretty clear vision of where I want to go, both tech and business. I guess I'd rather keep going slow right now than get side-tracked working on someone else's ideas. If their current project ever tanks, they might be interested in coming on board with me. I think we're both just trying to see where everything we're currently working on is going.