3 ms·

No, they are not really expensive. Let's take your example of Frankfurt -> Berlin. A 2nd class ICE ticket (without any reductions) is 123€ (1st class is 203€).

No, they are not really expensive. Let's take your example of Frankfurt -> Berlin. A 2nd class ICE ticket (without any reductions) is 123€ (1st class is 203€). Going the 550km (Google Maps estimate) by car will cost 247€ (estimated by the ADAC, the largest German automobile club, for a VW Golf VII). While you might want to argue that if you drive a lot by car, those costs per km will decrease, the same goes for travelling a lot by train.

lgbr 11y ago
This 247 € factors in vehicle costs, taxes, maintenance, and insurance. Keep in mind that actual fuel costs for this stretch with a VW Golf VII would be 25.4 € (3.3 l/100km * 550km * 1.40 €/liter). So you're right. If you go out and buy a brand new VW Golf VII, insure it fully, and regularly drive this stretch, you're probably going to experience an average cost of 247 € for this stretch. But there's two problems with this: The actual marginal cost of the trip is still 25.4 €, plus let's give it a generous maintenance cost putting it at around 50 €. That's still less than half of the cost of the ICE. Add to this that you now have a car which can carry five people and the costs don't increase at all per person. A trip with 5 people is still going to cost you that 500 € instead of 615 €. The second problem is that this is when you're buying a new car. Buying a used car would very easily bring your 247 € cost down below that 123 € even with the increase maintenance costs.
- claudius 11y ago
  If you sink ~7000 Euro into a Bahncard 100 first class, you can go mostly anywhere for free. So by the logic of only counting marginal costs, it’s 25.4 € more expensive to travel from Berlin to Frankfurt by car as opposed to railway. Berlin to Frankfurt takes about 4 to 5 hours. For the car, this is time spent driving. For the train, we may have to subtract about 30 mins waiting in Leipzig or Hanover for a connecting train, leaving you with 3.5 to 4.5 hours in the train. At a modest 15€/hour, your car trip is now 77.9 to 92.9€ more expensive than the train journey.
abrugsch 11y ago
That calculation seems a little off... I don't know what ADAC takes into consideration for that calculation, but either of the cars in my family operate at around 16 Km/L on long distance, mostly motorway/autobahn (and neither will be as efficient as a Golf VII which may be closer to 20) and I don't know how much petrol/diesel costs in Germany right now, but it's probably not too far off £1.15-1.20 per litre in the UK at the moment (quick google suggests 1.43€, exchange rate of 1.4 so actually a little cheaper.) 550 Km/16 = 34.4 Litres of fuel at 1.43 a litre gives around 50€ per direction. I don't know what the tolls are like but I wouldn't cost in vehicle cost or insurance (both sunk costs) but maybe a portion of servicing costs (1/30th of a 15000Km service interval) so let's say worst case allow 20€. So actual cost of journey more like 70€ per direction, which is A LOT less than 247€ that ADAC is suggesting, and still 50€ less than the train. I'm not trying to advocate for the car, (I much prefer train travel - especially on DB) but based purely on costs, it doesn't stack up... BTW, train prices are similarly stacked in the UK, with it rarely being more cost effective to take a train unless the convenience factor is a major part, like going to central London...

lgbr 11y ago

This 247 € factors in vehicle costs, taxes, maintenance, and insurance. Keep in mind that actual fuel costs for this stretch with a VW Golf VII would be 25.4 € (3.3 l/100km * 550km * 1.40 €/liter). So you're right. If you go out and buy a brand new VW Golf VII, insure it fully, and regularly drive this stretch, you're probably going to experience an average cost of 247 € for this stretch. But there's two problems with this: The actual marginal cost of the trip is still 25.4 €, plus let's give it a generous maintenance cost putting it at around 50 €. That's still less than half of the cost of the ICE. Add to this that you now have a car which can carry five people and the costs don't increase at all per person. A trip with 5 people is still going to cost you that 500 € instead of 615 €. The second problem is that this is when you're buying a new car. Buying a used car would very easily bring your 247 € cost down below that 123 € even with the increase maintenance costs.

claudius 11y ago
If you sink ~7000 Euro into a Bahncard 100 first class, you can go mostly anywhere for free. So by the logic of only counting marginal costs, it’s 25.4 € more expensive to travel from Berlin to Frankfurt by car as opposed to railway. Berlin to Frankfurt takes about 4 to 5 hours. For the car, this is time spent driving. For the train, we may have to subtract about 30 mins waiting in Leipzig or Hanover for a connecting train, leaving you with 3.5 to 4.5 hours in the train. At a modest 15€/hour, your car trip is now 77.9 to 92.9€ more expensive than the train journey.

abrugsch 11y ago

That calculation seems a little off... I don't know what ADAC takes into consideration for that calculation, but either of the cars in my family operate at around 16 Km/L on long distance, mostly motorway/autobahn (and neither will be as efficient as a Golf VII which may be closer to 20) and I don't know how much petrol/diesel costs in Germany right now, but it's probably not too far off £1.15-1.20 per litre in the UK at the moment (quick google suggests 1.43€, exchange rate of 1.4 so actually a little cheaper.) 550 Km/16 = 34.4 Litres of fuel at 1.43 a litre gives around 50€ per direction. I don't know what the tolls are like but I wouldn't cost in vehicle cost or insurance (both sunk costs) but maybe a portion of servicing costs (1/30th of a 15000Km service interval) so let's say worst case allow 20€. So actual cost of journey more like 70€ per direction, which is A LOT less than 247€ that ADAC is suggesting, and still 50€ less than the train. I'm not trying to advocate for the car, (I much prefer train travel - especially on DB) but based purely on costs, it doesn't stack up... BTW, train prices are similarly stacked in the UK, with it rarely being more cost effective to take a train unless the convenience factor is a major part, like going to central London...