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And to think the UKUSA agencies tried to cover up this clusterfuck by having the Murdoch rags blame it on Snowden. (JRun and Windows XP? Really?)

by rodgerd 11y ago

walshemj 11y ago
That's a different thing and BTW Bruce Schenier thinks that the FSB and the Chinese have Snowdens data by now the. Now id believe Bruce more than a Murdoch Rag
- beagle3 11y ago
  If I understood Schneier's piece correctly, he believes that they had it before Snowden did (and independently of him), which seems extremely plausible - if Snowden could take all those files with nobody noticing, it's likely that a well funded, well equipped and well trained espionage agency has done that independently of him, likely all of them -- And for disinformation and source hiding, I'm sure they all (even internally and to their own "customers") claim now that the source is Snowden. I would if I were in their place.
  - walshemj 11y ago
    I though his point was that they would have got it from the Journalist's - His other point was more speculative that there are other spies working for the FSB etc inside the wire at the nsa
    - beagle3 11y ago
      All his points are speculative. He basically said "I think they probably have it - either directly or from the journalists". Why do most people believe the journalists are the easier target? They have certainly, at any point in time when stuff was in their possession, been more paranoid and careful than the NSA was before Snowden's reveal.
      - walshemj 11y ago
        Because 99.99% of journalists are not cyber security professionals and are a much easier target than an ex CIA and NSA employee. ps you do know who Bruce is?
        beagle3 11y ago
        Yet, the relevant three actually (who cares about the 99.99%?) do have an idea, if you've been following the case. 99.9999% of journalists do not, and never had, a copy of the data. Poitras and Greenwald actually know what they are doing. Yes, I do know who Bruce is. Do you? Did you actually read the piece[0] we are talking about? Schneier himself seems to believe that the journalists are likely hacked, but that state actors have had this info long before Snowden: """ Which brings me to the second potential source of these documents to foreign intelligence agencies: the US and UK governments themselves. I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they've penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside. After all, the NSA has been a prime target for decades. """ and """ The point I make in the article is that those nations didn't have to wait for Snowden. More specifically, GCHQ claims that "we have now seen our agents and assets being targeted." One, agents and assets are not discussed in the Snowden documents. Two, it's two years after Snowden handed those documents to reporters. Whatever is happening, it's unlikely to be related to Snowden. """. Oh, and when you mention [ex]CIA employees, are you including the head of the CIA[1] or not? Cause, you know, that guy failed miserably at information security. [0] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/the_secrecy_of_.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/the_secrecy_o... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petraeus_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petraeus_scandal
        jobjh797878 11y ago
        Please reconsider your tone.
        walshemj 11y ago
        And by now is it only those 3 that have had access to the data or physical access to the machines - hacking another GMG journalist or machine would be one route. And Petraeus shows that parachuting outsiders to the DCI's job isn't a good idea and also if your bonking a spook you don't behave like some 15 year old high school student.
  - knowaveragejoe 11y ago
    My understanding of the Snowden docs is that, while plentiful, much of the most sensitive information is redacted and there are things referenced within them that are detailed outside of anything leaked. I could be wrong but, most people paying close attention assumed the "revelations" were going on, just nobody knew the codenames or specific details about the programs.
rip747 11y ago
They are using Adobe ColdFusion which prior to version 10 was using JRUN as the JVM. Adobe doesn't even support nor let you download version 9 and below anymore. Granted there are a couple hiccups moving from 9 to 10 but mostly (and understandably) it involved if you were calling Java directly. For the most part its pretty painless to upgrade.

And to think the UKUSA agencies tried to cover up this clusterfuck by having the Murdoch rags blame it on Snowden. (JRun and Windows XP? Really?)

by rodgerd 11y ago

And to think the UKUSA agencies tried to cover up this clusterfuck by having the Murdoch rags blame it on Snowden. (JRun and Windows XP? Really?)

walshemj 11y ago

That's a different thing and BTW Bruce Schenier thinks that the FSB and the Chinese have Snowdens data by now the. Now id believe Bruce more than a Murdoch Rag

beagle3 11y ago
If I understood Schneier's piece correctly, he believes that they had it before Snowden did (and independently of him), which seems extremely plausible - if Snowden could take all those files with nobody noticing, it's likely that a well funded, well equipped and well trained espionage agency has done that independently of him, likely all of them -- And for disinformation and source hiding, I'm sure they all (even internally and to their own "customers") claim now that the source is Snowden. I would if I were in their place.
- walshemj 11y ago
  I though his point was that they would have got it from the Journalist's - His other point was more speculative that there are other spies working for the FSB etc inside the wire at the nsa
  - beagle3 11y ago
    All his points are speculative. He basically said "I think they probably have it - either directly or from the journalists". Why do most people believe the journalists are the easier target? They have certainly, at any point in time when stuff was in their possession, been more paranoid and careful than the NSA was before Snowden's reveal.
    - walshemj 11y ago
      Because 99.99% of journalists are not cyber security professionals and are a much easier target than an ex CIA and NSA employee. ps you do know who Bruce is?
      - beagle3 11y ago
        Yet, the relevant three actually (who cares about the 99.99%?) do have an idea, if you've been following the case. 99.9999% of journalists do not, and never had, a copy of the data. Poitras and Greenwald actually know what they are doing. Yes, I do know who Bruce is. Do you? Did you actually read the piece[0] we are talking about? Schneier himself seems to believe that the journalists are likely hacked, but that state actors have had this info long before Snowden: """ Which brings me to the second potential source of these documents to foreign intelligence agencies: the US and UK governments themselves. I believe that both China and Russia had access to all the files that Snowden took well before Snowden took them because they've penetrated the NSA networks where those files reside. After all, the NSA has been a prime target for decades. """ and """ The point I make in the article is that those nations didn't have to wait for Snowden. More specifically, GCHQ claims that "we have now seen our agents and assets being targeted." One, agents and assets are not discussed in the Snowden documents. Two, it's two years after Snowden handed those documents to reporters. Whatever is happening, it's unlikely to be related to Snowden. """. Oh, and when you mention [ex]CIA employees, are you including the head of the CIA[1] or not? Cause, you know, that guy failed miserably at information security. [0] https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/the_secrecy_of_.html https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2015/06/the_secrecy_o... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petraeus_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petraeus_scandal
        jobjh797878 11y ago
        Please reconsider your tone.
        walshemj 11y ago
        And by now is it only those 3 that have had access to the data or physical access to the machines - hacking another GMG journalist or machine would be one route. And Petraeus shows that parachuting outsiders to the DCI's job isn't a good idea and also if your bonking a spook you don't behave like some 15 year old high school student.
- knowaveragejoe 11y ago
  My understanding of the Snowden docs is that, while plentiful, much of the most sensitive information is redacted and there are things referenced within them that are detailed outside of anything leaked. I could be wrong but, most people paying close attention assumed the "revelations" were going on, just nobody knew the codenames or specific details about the programs.

rip747 11y ago

They are using Adobe ColdFusion which prior to version 10 was using JRUN as the JVM. Adobe doesn't even support nor let you download version 9 and below anymore. Granted there are a couple hiccups moving from 9 to 10 but mostly (and understandably) it involved if you were calling Java directly. For the most part its pretty painless to upgrade.