6 ms·

Am I the only one puzzled by this comment?

ameen 11y ago
You shouldn't be. I'm a Muslim and I've dealt with numerous such individuals painting Muslims as backward and illiterate. Muslims are the scapegoat of this generation, as the Jews, Blacks were before them. Their entire worldview is constructed of an us vs. them ideology rather than understanding that we're fundamentally the same regardless of our ethnicity/faiths/inclinations/etc.
- bruceb 11y ago
  Saying dumb things like that (now flagged) post is yes dumb. That being said religion is not the same as race. Clearly people do believe different things. Most of the time with a little understanding conflict can be avoided. But some difference are real and then yes it is a us vs them.
- rbanffy 11y ago
  > I'm a Muslim and I've dealt with numerous such individuals Sorry. It must be annoying.
- boothead 11y ago
  ameen, may I ask how you regard people who call themselves reformers such as Maajid Nawaz https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali https://twitter.com/Ayaan https://twitter.com/Ayaan?
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Can we not pretend that a thread started by a hateful comment about locking an entire culture out of Europe is a good venue for a discussion about religion? Actually: the whole of HN is a bad venue for that discussion.
    - boothead 11y ago
      The thing is that I'm genuinely interested in how people of certain groups regard themselves. I follow both of those individuals on twitter and they seem to an outsider to be talking sense. I would however like to know the opinion of people who are Muslim before I decide that though. I agree that HN isn't the forum for this, but surely the best place to rebut such thinking is when it arises? You can hopefully see from my other comments on this thread that I certainly don't condone what the op said..
      - tptacek 11y ago
        This isn't the time or the place.
    - rbanffy 11y ago
      There is no good venue for that discussion, Thomas.
  - boothead 11y ago
    Why all the down votes at an honest attempt at dialogue?
- alphapapa 11y ago
  You are being deceptive. Islam explicitly commands its followers to deceive others. Compare the Islamic State to Jews. Compare the Islamic State to blacks. There is no such comparison. This "scapegoat" victim card is a lie. Jews are not decapitating and immolating. Blacks are not decapitating and immolating. Yet Muslims from around the world are leaving their homes to join the Islamic State in their unspeakable evil, behaviors that might very generously be described as "backward." Islam explicitly paints an us-vs.-them picture. Islam explicitly commands its followers to kidnap, rape, enslave, and kill unbelievers. These are simple facts, the truth.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    For those playing along at home, the "flag" button appears if you click on the timestamp on the above comment. When you see bigoted trolls on HN, don't have a conversation with them, just flag them off the site.
    - alphapapa 11y ago
      Typical. Nothing I said was untrue, nor even an opinion. They're all facts. Instead of reasoning with me and proving me wrong, you reach for the "bigot" card and refuse to have a conversation. That is being a troll. No big surprise, though. Much easier to click a button and silence those who disagree with you than write a reasonable counter-argument. Well, at least the truth is out there for those who want to find it.
      - rosser 11y ago
        In my entire tenure on HN, I have never wanted to reply to a comment with something that would get me flagged so strongly as this. That deserves some kind of award.
        alphapapa 11y ago
        And in the same way, I find your comment amazing. What have I said that is so wrong? What have I said that has incensed you so? If I had made a racist, truly bigoted comment about people of one skin color or another, that would be understandable. Or if I had said that all people of one religion or another were bad people, that would be understandable. Or if I had said that all people of one sex, or from one place, or who do one kind of job were bad, that would be understandable. But I haven't said anything like that. I've simply stated some facts which anyone can verify with a few moments of googling. Why does that anger you so? And if what I have said is untrue, why not just cite some Wikipedia article or random web site that refutes my statements? Or if my statements are generalized and need to be nuanced, why not just point that out? Whether you agree with me or not, I've made some assertions which should be verifiable or disprovable. It's starting a conversation which can move forward toward the truth, whatever that truth may be. If you think the truth is not what I've said, then why don't you show me what you think the truth is? When you, instead, give the impression that you're so red-faced with anger that steam is pouring from your ears and you can't speak through your clenched teeth, that doesn't make you appear to be the reasonable one. If you're truly speechless, the question is, why?
- sumedh 11y ago
  > we're fundamentally the same regardless of our ethnicity/faiths/inclinations/etc. Are you saying that Arab muslims who come to India marry poor young virgin girls, have sex and then divorce them are fundamentally the same? http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/13/indias_prostitute_brides_girls_raped_as_temporary_wives.html http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/13/indias_prostitu...
- tptacek 11y ago
  I promise you that most of us, regardless of our faith (on HN, that will mostly be Pastafarianism), are embarrassed by bigoted comments like those.

ameen 11y ago

You shouldn't be. I'm a Muslim and I've dealt with numerous such individuals painting Muslims as backward and illiterate. Muslims are the scapegoat of this generation, as the Jews, Blacks were before them. Their entire worldview is constructed of an us vs. them ideology rather than understanding that we're fundamentally the same regardless of our ethnicity/faiths/inclinations/etc.

bruceb 11y ago
Saying dumb things like that (now flagged) post is yes dumb. That being said religion is not the same as race. Clearly people do believe different things. Most of the time with a little understanding conflict can be avoided. But some difference are real and then yes it is a us vs them.
rbanffy 11y ago
> I'm a Muslim and I've dealt with numerous such individuals Sorry. It must be annoying.
boothead 11y ago
ameen, may I ask how you regard people who call themselves reformers such as Maajid Nawaz https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz https://twitter.com/maajidnawaz and Ayaan Hirsi Ali https://twitter.com/Ayaan https://twitter.com/Ayaan?
- tptacek 11y ago
  Can we not pretend that a thread started by a hateful comment about locking an entire culture out of Europe is a good venue for a discussion about religion? Actually: the whole of HN is a bad venue for that discussion.
  - boothead 11y ago
    The thing is that I'm genuinely interested in how people of certain groups regard themselves. I follow both of those individuals on twitter and they seem to an outsider to be talking sense. I would however like to know the opinion of people who are Muslim before I decide that though. I agree that HN isn't the forum for this, but surely the best place to rebut such thinking is when it arises? You can hopefully see from my other comments on this thread that I certainly don't condone what the op said..
    - tptacek 11y ago
      This isn't the time or the place.
  - rbanffy 11y ago
    There is no good venue for that discussion, Thomas.
- boothead 11y ago
  Why all the down votes at an honest attempt at dialogue?
alphapapa 11y ago
You are being deceptive. Islam explicitly commands its followers to deceive others. Compare the Islamic State to Jews. Compare the Islamic State to blacks. There is no such comparison. This "scapegoat" victim card is a lie. Jews are not decapitating and immolating. Blacks are not decapitating and immolating. Yet Muslims from around the world are leaving their homes to join the Islamic State in their unspeakable evil, behaviors that might very generously be described as "backward." Islam explicitly paints an us-vs.-them picture. Islam explicitly commands its followers to kidnap, rape, enslave, and kill unbelievers. These are simple facts, the truth.
- tptacek 11y ago
  For those playing along at home, the "flag" button appears if you click on the timestamp on the above comment. When you see bigoted trolls on HN, don't have a conversation with them, just flag them off the site.
  - alphapapa 11y ago
    Typical. Nothing I said was untrue, nor even an opinion. They're all facts. Instead of reasoning with me and proving me wrong, you reach for the "bigot" card and refuse to have a conversation. That is being a troll. No big surprise, though. Much easier to click a button and silence those who disagree with you than write a reasonable counter-argument. Well, at least the truth is out there for those who want to find it.
    - rosser 11y ago
      In my entire tenure on HN, I have never wanted to reply to a comment with something that would get me flagged so strongly as this. That deserves some kind of award.
      - alphapapa 11y ago
        And in the same way, I find your comment amazing. What have I said that is so wrong? What have I said that has incensed you so? If I had made a racist, truly bigoted comment about people of one skin color or another, that would be understandable. Or if I had said that all people of one religion or another were bad people, that would be understandable. Or if I had said that all people of one sex, or from one place, or who do one kind of job were bad, that would be understandable. But I haven't said anything like that. I've simply stated some facts which anyone can verify with a few moments of googling. Why does that anger you so? And if what I have said is untrue, why not just cite some Wikipedia article or random web site that refutes my statements? Or if my statements are generalized and need to be nuanced, why not just point that out? Whether you agree with me or not, I've made some assertions which should be verifiable or disprovable. It's starting a conversation which can move forward toward the truth, whatever that truth may be. If you think the truth is not what I've said, then why don't you show me what you think the truth is? When you, instead, give the impression that you're so red-faced with anger that steam is pouring from your ears and you can't speak through your clenched teeth, that doesn't make you appear to be the reasonable one. If you're truly speechless, the question is, why?
sumedh 11y ago
> we're fundamentally the same regardless of our ethnicity/faiths/inclinations/etc. Are you saying that Arab muslims who come to India marry poor young virgin girls, have sex and then divorce them are fundamentally the same? http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/13/indias_prostitute_brides_girls_raped_as_temporary_wives.html http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2014/10/13/indias_prostitu...
tptacek 11y ago
I promise you that most of us, regardless of our faith (on HN, that will mostly be Pastafarianism), are embarrassed by bigoted comments like those.