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Come on, they cooked their own books and noone forced them. They may suffer from that now but pointing that out is not 'victim blaming'.
by Bootvis 11y ago
Come on, they cooked their own books and noone forced them. They may suffer from that now but pointing that out is not 'victim blaming'.
- gizmo 11y agoSpain is also suffering and they didn't cook their books. It was also an open secret that Greece's numbers were manipulated, but the ideal of a united Europe with one currency overruled economic pragmatism. Even if Greece had no corruption at all they would still be in a nearly indistinguishable position. They still would have been flooded with debt (simply a consequence of interest rates dropping during the boom) and they would still get a crushing depression (because that's what happens when you share a currency with larger and economically stronger countries). When Greece joined the Euro the outcome was nearly inevitable, so blaming Greece for this makes little sense. The austerity policies the troika imposed on the Greek people were brutal and completely unnecessary, though. So that's the outrageous part.
- mcv 11y agoThe austerity measures weren't just unnecessary, they actively hurt the Greek economy, making it even harder for them to repay the remaining debt. It was totally stupid.
- istvan__ 11y agoI see. What is you suggested solution?
- gizmo 11y agoI don't think there's a solution that's politically palatable to all parties. To fix the humanitarian crisis in Greece they need money in the short term, and the opportunity to do substantial reform in the long term. This ultimately benefits everybody in Europe, but it's not an easy sell. The press coverage of the crisis has been so toxic that most people in Germany, Belgium, France, etc, believe that any money going to Greece will by definition get squandered. On top of that there are prejudicial stereotypes about Greeks being lazy (false: in a country with poor infrastructure you have to work more hours to get even a little work done) or that they've benefited immensely from the Euro (false: Germany is the big beneficiary because they're the biggest exporter. The "opportunity" Greece got to borrow cheaply was a trap, and Greece's economy is wrecked now). So even the politicians who understand the economics don't dare suggest major debt forgiveness and fiscal transfers. This isn't even an outrageous solution, if you remember that states like Mississippi and Alabama net more than 500bln from the federal government, every year. This subsidy is much larger than the entire GDP of Greece. The US is willing to subsidize poorer member states, and the EU should do the same. Otherwise the Euro will fall apart, and the humanitarian catastrophe will worsen.
- deleted 11y ago[deleted]
- mcv 11y agoYou seem to pretend that Greece is a single atomic unit. The people cooking those books were neither the voters nor the current government, both of whom are victims of the mismanagement of previous governments. Of course the voters should never have elected them in the first place, but look at the loons that American voters keep voting for. And the Greek crooks were given both the means and the motive to cook the books, because there was status attached to joining the euro, and the rules were not being enforced so strictly back then. And the easy loans after joining the euro let them pretend to their voters that all was fine.
- istvan__ 11y agoI guess than the greek people should go find those people who were cooking the books and hold them accountable. I yet to see how the bad greek government is anybody else's problem other than the voters who put them in place and the country itself. Politicians like to take credit for every progress but never take the blame. Imagine if you did the same thing as a leader of a corporation. Why is it different than bad leaders of a country? Just because politicians are historically untouchable? What is the guarantee that it wont happen again with the current government? Did anything change?