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Hello, didn't expect to see this here. I'll be happy to answer any question as I refrained from giving deep technical details in the article. I'm surprised at h

by yifanlu 11y ago

Hello, didn't expect to see this here. I'll be happy to answer any question as I refrained from giving deep technical details in the article. I'm surprised at how secure the Vita is given Sony's track record. I would say that the Vita is the most secure consumer embedded device that's out today.

kawsper 11y ago
Are we some day going to see the same activity in Homebrew on the Vita as we saw it on the PSP?
- joshuapants 11y ago
  In a sense we already literally do: the only working exploits (that I know of, it's been a while since I checked) involve the PSP emulator on the system. So you have the same activity insofar as you can run the exact same homebrew :P
- yifanlu 11y ago
  I hope so. But the cynic in me thinks think there won't be as much work because now most people who would work on homebrew games and emulators are now coding for smartphones and tablets. However, by getting an open sdk started and releasing a public exploit for developers (honestly it's not user friendly enough for everyone), I'm hoping the scene will finally get a jump start.
  - voltagex_ 11y ago
    I only bought a DS when there was homebrew available - or at least the possibility of "Hello World". Is the Vita at that point now? Do I have to search eBay for an old Vita or will the newest ones work?
    - bebna 11y ago
      Don't bother. But to answer somewhat your question: You should look for one with a game on it, which is known to be usable for hacking. Those games are mostly pulled from the store and not available anymore.
joshuapants 11y ago
First off that was a fascinating read. Thanks. > I would say that the Vita is the most secure consumer embedded device that's out today It's really disappointing in some ways. The PSP made for a great portable media/emulation platform and the additional power of the Vita would have been welcome for those purposes. But it's buttoned up incredibly tight, so mine just sits as a paperweight because there are very few Vita games that interest me.
madez 11y ago
Does Sony reach out to developers in the scene to employ them to make their next console harder to hack?
- yifanlu 11y ago
  No, typically Sony is hostile towards hackers. Being ignored is the best response from them. I think after the bad press for PS3 and psn hacks, Sony hired security consultants to secure the Vita. They did so many things right that frankly it's suprising. Not everything rolled over into the ps4 though so the vita is more secure than the ps4.
- mukyu 11y ago
  They famously sued geohot (and others) for their work on the PS3. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment_America,_Inc._v._Hotz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment_Am...
mrpippy 11y ago
> I would say that the Vita is the most secure consumer embedded device that's out today Moreso than the PS4 and XBONE?
- sspiff 11y ago
  Or the 3DS. It's funny, when it's our personal data or credit card numbers, they can't seem to manage the most basic of security procedures. Yet when it's DRM and they want to prevent unauthorized third party code from running (because they can't take their 60% cut), suddenly they're masters at sandboxing.
  - agumonkey 11y ago
    Typical system behavior. Tax offices are uber fast at cross relating shallow data to spot potential fraud, but coudln't help you fill some form to save their life.
  - lucb1e 11y ago
    The difference between a profit center and a cost center, I guess. It costs money to secure a bunch of systems that process credit card data or other stuff; it profits to be able to take that 60% cut.
  - DanBC 11y ago
    > suddenly Ignoring the Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advanced, Gameboy Advanced SP, Gameboy Micro, all the various combinations of those machines, and then the Nintendo DS and combinations. They've never been friendly to homebrew, but after DS flash cards it's not surprising they tightened things up.
    - sspiff 11y ago
      Suddenly as in compared to securing customer data, not their previous consoles. Suddenly was used to indicate the contrast between their efforts and abilities in securing various segments of their platform.
- 11y ago
beefhash 11y ago
How does the Vita compare to the 3DS with regards to security and -- from a developer's point of view -- overall system architecture?
- yifanlu 11y ago
  How detailed do you want me to get? I've hacked both of them so I can give you as much info as you want. From a broad perspective, Vita has KASLR/ASLR, stack canaries, trustzone, just to name a few standard things that 3ds doesn't have. Overall the 3ds is pretty much "hacked" (only a couple of components are still secured including bootrom and aes engine). Vita is not even hacked at a kernel level yet.
Sektor 11y ago
I didn't expect to see this OR you here! I read gbatemp/wololo/hn about every hour most days and it's weird to see both worlds come together (in some small way). Congrats on all your work to date and look forward to seeing more from you in this space!

by yifanlu 11y ago

kawsper 11y ago

Are we some day going to see the same activity in Homebrew on the Vita as we saw it on the PSP?

joshuapants 11y ago
In a sense we already literally do: the only working exploits (that I know of, it's been a while since I checked) involve the PSP emulator on the system. So you have the same activity insofar as you can run the exact same homebrew :P
yifanlu 11y ago
I hope so. But the cynic in me thinks think there won't be as much work because now most people who would work on homebrew games and emulators are now coding for smartphones and tablets. However, by getting an open sdk started and releasing a public exploit for developers (honestly it's not user friendly enough for everyone), I'm hoping the scene will finally get a jump start.
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  I only bought a DS when there was homebrew available - or at least the possibility of "Hello World". Is the Vita at that point now? Do I have to search eBay for an old Vita or will the newest ones work?
  - bebna 11y ago
    Don't bother. But to answer somewhat your question: You should look for one with a game on it, which is known to be usable for hacking. Those games are mostly pulled from the store and not available anymore.

joshuapants 11y ago

First off that was a fascinating read. Thanks. > I would say that the Vita is the most secure consumer embedded device that's out today It's really disappointing in some ways. The PSP made for a great portable media/emulation platform and the additional power of the Vita would have been welcome for those purposes. But it's buttoned up incredibly tight, so mine just sits as a paperweight because there are very few Vita games that interest me.

madez 11y ago

Does Sony reach out to developers in the scene to employ them to make their next console harder to hack?

yifanlu 11y ago
No, typically Sony is hostile towards hackers. Being ignored is the best response from them. I think after the bad press for PS3 and psn hacks, Sony hired security consultants to secure the Vita. They did so many things right that frankly it's suprising. Not everything rolled over into the ps4 though so the vita is more secure than the ps4.
mukyu 11y ago
They famously sued geohot (and others) for their work on the PS3. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment_America,_Inc._v._Hotz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Computer_Entertainment_Am...

mrpippy 11y ago

> I would say that the Vita is the most secure consumer embedded device that's out today Moreso than the PS4 and XBONE?

sspiff 11y ago
Or the 3DS. It's funny, when it's our personal data or credit card numbers, they can't seem to manage the most basic of security procedures. Yet when it's DRM and they want to prevent unauthorized third party code from running (because they can't take their 60% cut), suddenly they're masters at sandboxing.
- agumonkey 11y ago
  Typical system behavior. Tax offices are uber fast at cross relating shallow data to spot potential fraud, but coudln't help you fill some form to save their life.
- lucb1e 11y ago
  The difference between a profit center and a cost center, I guess. It costs money to secure a bunch of systems that process credit card data or other stuff; it profits to be able to take that 60% cut.
- DanBC 11y ago
  > suddenly Ignoring the Gameboy, Gameboy Pocket, Gameboy Color, Gameboy Advanced, Gameboy Advanced SP, Gameboy Micro, all the various combinations of those machines, and then the Nintendo DS and combinations. They've never been friendly to homebrew, but after DS flash cards it's not surprising they tightened things up.
  - sspiff 11y ago
    Suddenly as in compared to securing customer data, not their previous consoles. Suddenly was used to indicate the contrast between their efforts and abilities in securing various segments of their platform.
11y ago

beefhash 11y ago

How does the Vita compare to the 3DS with regards to security and -- from a developer's point of view -- overall system architecture?

yifanlu 11y ago
How detailed do you want me to get? I've hacked both of them so I can give you as much info as you want. From a broad perspective, Vita has KASLR/ASLR, stack canaries, trustzone, just to name a few standard things that 3ds doesn't have. Overall the 3ds is pretty much "hacked" (only a couple of components are still secured including bootrom and aes engine). Vita is not even hacked at a kernel level yet.

Sektor 11y ago

I didn't expect to see this OR you here! I read gbatemp/wololo/hn about every hour most days and it's weird to see both worlds come together (in some small way). Congrats on all your work to date and look forward to seeing more from you in this space!