3 ms·

Can't post the exact description but the jist of it was: Strong understanding of objective C and iOS SDK Swift experience a plus Passion for design / UX Proven

Can't post the exact description but the jist of it was: Strong understanding of objective C and iOS SDK Swift experience a plus Passion for design / UX Proven track record of quality apps in app store That's literally all I had under qualifications.

ryandrake 11y ago
What did you have under "here are some great benefits" or "why it's awesome to work here"?
- GreenPlastic 11y ago
  Leaned on the company's official materials for this. Employee focused culture where we work hard and play hard. XX on best companies to work for list. Fast growing company with great benefits, dogs allowed at work, etc.
  - jes5199 11y ago
    OK, so apparently you decided not to try to entice people with the culture or benefits, either. Does the company have a recognizable name with a strong reputation? Because that's the only thing left that could convince someone to apply.
  - ryandrake 11y ago
    Here are some things I'd LOVE to see on a job posting, but never have: 1. Interview process MAX 1 afternoon. We commit to AFFIRMATIVELY giving you an accept or reject within 2 weeks. (in other words, we respect your time) 2. Need to hire for this position by [DATE]. (this is a real job opportunity and we are not just fishing) 3. We're not going to ask you to spend a weekend on a work sample or to write code for us for free. (again, we respect your time, and potentially your IP agreement with your current employer) 4. To apply, just upload your resume or send us your LinkedIn URL. You don't have to fill out a 500-form field online application. (see a pattern here?) 5. We offer detailed feedback after unsuccessful interviews. (we earnestly want you to re-apply later if you're better then) 6. If you're good but not an exact fit, we may suggest to you an alternate role rather than just reject and make you wonder if you should re-apply. (serious about finding talent rather than filling a specific narrow role) I'd also love to see the company publish their current employee retention rate for similar roles, but I know that's asking for a lot. When I already have a job, one of the main reasons I don't apply to other jobs more often, even ones that look very interesting, is that most hiring processes are opaque, endless, and generally painful. If you're not getting enough candidates into the funnel, maybe include something about how painless your particular funnel is.
    - wyclif 11y ago
      I like almost all of this, and I think it's far better than the hiring culture than we have now. Especially the part about making it clear that they're not just fishing and intend to let the req sit open for a year, and not making you do 3 or 4 interviews over the course of a month. But I just wanted to add that I don't think your #5 could ever work, because of liability. There's a good reason why companies don't do post-interview feedback— to avoid legal liability.
      - ryandrake 11y ago
        Companies (at least in the US) only have to worry about legal liability if their reason for not hiring someone is based on one or more of a very clear enumerated list of reasons: race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability or genetic information. As long as the company's feedback cannot be traced back to one of these, they should be in the clear to provide helpful, actionable feedback.
        wyclif 11y ago
        IANAL, but the only reason anyone would attempt to trace feedback in the manner you're describing would be the result of a legal action like a frivolous discrimination lawsuit. The point of not providing feedback from their side is to avoid such lawsuits altogether.
      - ghaff 11y ago
        I don't think it's so much legal liability as: 1.) Why go to the trouble? What's in it for us? Yes, we shouldn't leave you hanging and should in general behave professionally but detailed feedback as part of a formal process seems more than one can reasonably expect. 2.) It invites prolonging the process. A lot of people told that they have insufficient experience in X will want to respond that they really do and it must just not have come out in the interview. 3.) This may be truer for non-technical roles, but think of it like dating. A lot of the time people get rejected because the potential hiring company "Just wasn't that into them" or just preferred someone else better.
    - 11y ago
  - logn 11y ago
    Companies described like that tend to be for underpaid workaholics. Also I think the "work hard play hard" phrase implies an unhealthy culture of excess. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-work-hard-play-hard-code-for-destructive-behavior/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-work-hard-play-hard-code-for-...
    - ryandrake 11y ago
      Yea, definitely "work hard, play hard" is almost always a red flag for me when I read it. Everyone is expected to work hard. When it's explicitly spelled out in a job description, that is usually code for "long hours, required face time, leading to burnout". And Play hard? What does that even mean in the context of a job? I don't go to the office to play games.
      - jghn 11y ago
        When I see it I read it to mean that they expect folks to socialize outside of work (including at work, e.g. video games, drinking, etc). Mainly when I see "work hard, play hard" I read "I'm way too old to be working there"
    - nathanaldensr 11y ago
      When I read "We work hard and play hard," I see a company of extraverts who won't leave each other alone for the entire day. No thanks!
  - WWLink 11y ago
    "We're looking for a devops engineer that lives and breathes code. The best of the best, the cream of the crop. Be prepared to work hard and play hard in our agile environment!" hrmm there's a million and one good buzzwords that make me lol but I can't remember them all right now.
  - walshemj 11y ago
    So that will be a final salary pension then :-) is that 1/30 or 1/40 accrual rate.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
    In the bay area at least there is no shortage of fast growing companies with great benefits who allow dogs at work.
  - codeonfire 11y ago
    Work hard, play hard always means engineers working hard nights and weekends and people in charge not really doing anything in the way of work but drinking, drugging, partying, etc all the time.
xeni 11y ago
Ahh, why exactly don't you list compensation? Also, I think you should mention some details: The size of the team -- lone iOS developer, small team (2-4 people), or larger? Whether the application is a standalone mobile app (and the business is built around it), or simply a frontend for a pre-existing web application/product. (i.e. Working on Tinder versus working on OKCupid's mobile app) Disregard this if you included this already in the actual listing, and/or you're hiring for an iOS shop that will be dealing with outsourced projects Degree of control/ownership that the developer will have on the project I think you will attract different candidates based on these cases.
- GreenPlastic 11y ago
  See above. Mostly because I thought that listing cash comp was inconsistent with how the company markets itself to employees and the company's culture, which tends to be more on the humble side. I did have some information about the work in there but nothing really about the team size - I'll keep that in mind for future listings. Completely agree on your statement that the type of candidate you'll attract depends on the team, the company, the project.
  - epc 11y ago
    Not listing the compensation means that many potential applicants never even saw the role. It's 2015 yet many of these job sites will not display a role if one (as the potential applicant) has specified a salary range but the listing didn't include it. Another consideration: if there's ten roles I'm considering and yours is the only one which doesn't list compensation, I'm not going to waste my time applying for the role. You're competing in a marketplace for limited resources, failing to say how much you're willing to pay doesn't tell me anything about your company culture, it tells me you're unwilling to say how much you'd pay in compensation.
  - rwallace 11y ago
    I don't know why someone downvoted you - a clear and honest answer deserves an upvote in my opinion. But, while I understand what you're saying, and for all I know maybe being humble works well for you as internal company culture, humble really isn't a good marketing strategy - there's a good reason why marketing if anything traditionally errors on the side of boastfulness! I don't advocate exaggeration, but if you really are offering good pay and good working conditions, you should specify this in your job listing. Remember, in many cases a candidate will start off knowing nothing about your company except what he sees in the listing.
memracom 11y ago
Did you try to get all the Apple details out of your posting and replace them with Android ones? What difference does it make whether they built an iOS app if they are a mobile app developer? Also, why not look for a web app developer specializing in front end. Same skills, just a few minor technical details are different. I think a lot of employers do not understand what the word "skill" actually means. Generally skills increase with years of experience and if you take someone at the right level and throw a new platform at them, they will spend a week on reading and tutorials and then dive into a prototype of the app they need to build. After all, Google hires Apple and Microsoft engineers, then expects them to build stuff on the Google internal platform. And they DO!
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  There are big, big differences between the native iOS programming model, the native Android programming model, and the web programming model. They're not just "a few minor technical details." The toolchains are different, the UI design details are different, the event model is different, the model/backend details are different, and there are significant conceptual differences. I would be astonished if someone could move from web dev to iOS dev in a week with no previous experience. A good coder can probably bolt together a twinky do-nothing hello world app that quickly from a cold start, but they'll be a long way short of what's needed for a solid commercial-grade app with useful features.
  - deciplex 11y ago
    Perhaps the reason everyone thinks there is a shortage of developers, is that 'to iOS dev in a week' is somehow an acceptable metric to determine if someone is a good hire or not. I can not fathom the mindset that goes into the line of thought "yeah he's clearly a great developer - sadly he is currently working from framework X and we would need him to work from framework Y". I can only hope that such an attitude leaves a company more likely to go out of business (and I suspect it does). A strong engineer with a proven track record building enterprise-level applications is not going to become a shit-hot iOS developer in a week. However he will be just as likely to bring in 10x his salary in value to your company in his first year, as nearly anyone else you hire. But most hiring managers will probably not bother to promote such an applicant to even a phone screen, since it would take too much time out of everyone's daily 'where are all the iOS devs' bitch session on HN or proggit or whatever.

ryandrake 11y ago

What did you have under "here are some great benefits" or "why it's awesome to work here"?

GreenPlastic 11y ago
Leaned on the company's official materials for this. Employee focused culture where we work hard and play hard. XX on best companies to work for list. Fast growing company with great benefits, dogs allowed at work, etc.
- jes5199 11y ago
  OK, so apparently you decided not to try to entice people with the culture or benefits, either. Does the company have a recognizable name with a strong reputation? Because that's the only thing left that could convince someone to apply.
- ryandrake 11y ago
  Here are some things I'd LOVE to see on a job posting, but never have: 1. Interview process MAX 1 afternoon. We commit to AFFIRMATIVELY giving you an accept or reject within 2 weeks. (in other words, we respect your time) 2. Need to hire for this position by [DATE]. (this is a real job opportunity and we are not just fishing) 3. We're not going to ask you to spend a weekend on a work sample or to write code for us for free. (again, we respect your time, and potentially your IP agreement with your current employer) 4. To apply, just upload your resume or send us your LinkedIn URL. You don't have to fill out a 500-form field online application. (see a pattern here?) 5. We offer detailed feedback after unsuccessful interviews. (we earnestly want you to re-apply later if you're better then) 6. If you're good but not an exact fit, we may suggest to you an alternate role rather than just reject and make you wonder if you should re-apply. (serious about finding talent rather than filling a specific narrow role) I'd also love to see the company publish their current employee retention rate for similar roles, but I know that's asking for a lot. When I already have a job, one of the main reasons I don't apply to other jobs more often, even ones that look very interesting, is that most hiring processes are opaque, endless, and generally painful. If you're not getting enough candidates into the funnel, maybe include something about how painless your particular funnel is.
  - wyclif 11y ago
    I like almost all of this, and I think it's far better than the hiring culture than we have now. Especially the part about making it clear that they're not just fishing and intend to let the req sit open for a year, and not making you do 3 or 4 interviews over the course of a month. But I just wanted to add that I don't think your #5 could ever work, because of liability. There's a good reason why companies don't do post-interview feedback— to avoid legal liability.
    - ryandrake 11y ago
      Companies (at least in the US) only have to worry about legal liability if their reason for not hiring someone is based on one or more of a very clear enumerated list of reasons: race, color, religion, sex, national origin, age, disability or genetic information. As long as the company's feedback cannot be traced back to one of these, they should be in the clear to provide helpful, actionable feedback.
      - wyclif 11y ago
        IANAL, but the only reason anyone would attempt to trace feedback in the manner you're describing would be the result of a legal action like a frivolous discrimination lawsuit. The point of not providing feedback from their side is to avoid such lawsuits altogether.
    - ghaff 11y ago
      I don't think it's so much legal liability as: 1.) Why go to the trouble? What's in it for us? Yes, we shouldn't leave you hanging and should in general behave professionally but detailed feedback as part of a formal process seems more than one can reasonably expect. 2.) It invites prolonging the process. A lot of people told that they have insufficient experience in X will want to respond that they really do and it must just not have come out in the interview. 3.) This may be truer for non-technical roles, but think of it like dating. A lot of the time people get rejected because the potential hiring company "Just wasn't that into them" or just preferred someone else better.
  - 11y ago
- logn 11y ago
  Companies described like that tend to be for underpaid workaholics. Also I think the "work hard play hard" phrase implies an unhealthy culture of excess. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-work-hard-play-hard-code-for-destructive-behavior/ http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-work-hard-play-hard-code-for-...
  - ryandrake 11y ago
    Yea, definitely "work hard, play hard" is almost always a red flag for me when I read it. Everyone is expected to work hard. When it's explicitly spelled out in a job description, that is usually code for "long hours, required face time, leading to burnout". And Play hard? What does that even mean in the context of a job? I don't go to the office to play games.
    - jghn 11y ago
      When I see it I read it to mean that they expect folks to socialize outside of work (including at work, e.g. video games, drinking, etc). Mainly when I see "work hard, play hard" I read "I'm way too old to be working there"
  - nathanaldensr 11y ago
    When I read "We work hard and play hard," I see a company of extraverts who won't leave each other alone for the entire day. No thanks!
- WWLink 11y ago
  "We're looking for a devops engineer that lives and breathes code. The best of the best, the cream of the crop. Be prepared to work hard and play hard in our agile environment!" hrmm there's a million and one good buzzwords that make me lol but I can't remember them all right now.
- walshemj 11y ago
  So that will be a final salary pension then :-) is that 1/30 or 1/40 accrual rate.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 11y ago
  In the bay area at least there is no shortage of fast growing companies with great benefits who allow dogs at work.
- codeonfire 11y ago
  Work hard, play hard always means engineers working hard nights and weekends and people in charge not really doing anything in the way of work but drinking, drugging, partying, etc all the time.

xeni 11y ago

Ahh, why exactly don't you list compensation? Also, I think you should mention some details: The size of the team -- lone iOS developer, small team (2-4 people), or larger? Whether the application is a standalone mobile app (and the business is built around it), or simply a frontend for a pre-existing web application/product. (i.e. Working on Tinder versus working on OKCupid's mobile app) Disregard this if you included this already in the actual listing, and/or you're hiring for an iOS shop that will be dealing with outsourced projects Degree of control/ownership that the developer will have on the project I think you will attract different candidates based on these cases.

GreenPlastic 11y ago
See above. Mostly because I thought that listing cash comp was inconsistent with how the company markets itself to employees and the company's culture, which tends to be more on the humble side. I did have some information about the work in there but nothing really about the team size - I'll keep that in mind for future listings. Completely agree on your statement that the type of candidate you'll attract depends on the team, the company, the project.
- epc 11y ago
  Not listing the compensation means that many potential applicants never even saw the role. It's 2015 yet many of these job sites will not display a role if one (as the potential applicant) has specified a salary range but the listing didn't include it. Another consideration: if there's ten roles I'm considering and yours is the only one which doesn't list compensation, I'm not going to waste my time applying for the role. You're competing in a marketplace for limited resources, failing to say how much you're willing to pay doesn't tell me anything about your company culture, it tells me you're unwilling to say how much you'd pay in compensation.
- rwallace 11y ago
  I don't know why someone downvoted you - a clear and honest answer deserves an upvote in my opinion. But, while I understand what you're saying, and for all I know maybe being humble works well for you as internal company culture, humble really isn't a good marketing strategy - there's a good reason why marketing if anything traditionally errors on the side of boastfulness! I don't advocate exaggeration, but if you really are offering good pay and good working conditions, you should specify this in your job listing. Remember, in many cases a candidate will start off knowing nothing about your company except what he sees in the listing.

memracom 11y ago

Did you try to get all the Apple details out of your posting and replace them with Android ones? What difference does it make whether they built an iOS app if they are a mobile app developer? Also, why not look for a web app developer specializing in front end. Same skills, just a few minor technical details are different. I think a lot of employers do not understand what the word "skill" actually means. Generally skills increase with years of experience and if you take someone at the right level and throw a new platform at them, they will spend a week on reading and tutorials and then dive into a prototype of the app they need to build. After all, Google hires Apple and Microsoft engineers, then expects them to build stuff on the Google internal platform. And they DO!

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
There are big, big differences between the native iOS programming model, the native Android programming model, and the web programming model. They're not just "a few minor technical details." The toolchains are different, the UI design details are different, the event model is different, the model/backend details are different, and there are significant conceptual differences. I would be astonished if someone could move from web dev to iOS dev in a week with no previous experience. A good coder can probably bolt together a twinky do-nothing hello world app that quickly from a cold start, but they'll be a long way short of what's needed for a solid commercial-grade app with useful features.
- deciplex 11y ago
  Perhaps the reason everyone thinks there is a shortage of developers, is that 'to iOS dev in a week' is somehow an acceptable metric to determine if someone is a good hire or not. I can not fathom the mindset that goes into the line of thought "yeah he's clearly a great developer - sadly he is currently working from framework X and we would need him to work from framework Y". I can only hope that such an attitude leaves a company more likely to go out of business (and I suspect it does). A strong engineer with a proven track record building enterprise-level applications is not going to become a shit-hot iOS developer in a week. However he will be just as likely to bring in 10x his salary in value to your company in his first year, as nearly anyone else you hire. But most hiring managers will probably not bother to promote such an applicant to even a phone screen, since it would take too much time out of everyone's daily 'where are all the iOS devs' bitch session on HN or proggit or whatever.