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Posted a senior iOS dev position to Indeed, LinkedIn, Glassdoor where the company is paying 25%(maybe 40% if you include RSUs) above market here (although we do

Posted a senior iOS dev position to Indeed, LinkedIn, Glassdoor where the company is paying 25%(maybe 40% if you include RSUs) above market here (although we don't put comp in the job listing) and only got 3 applicants in a month.

hayksaakian 11y ago
Try posting the same exact thing in Craigslist. There's too much tangential noise in those websites.
xeni 11y ago
Any chance you could link the listing (or paste the description)? Just curious to see what sort of things you're looking for. I'm currently 5 months into my first full-time iOS dev position. I'm also really curious to know what sort of questions you ask during your interview process (both pre-screens and onsite). I understand if you don't want to share info on that though :)
smil 11y ago
So compensation is not relevant to your point at all since you didn't list it. Or were you looking for mind readers? The low response rate makes sense in that case.
- GreenPlastic 11y ago
  Fair enough, but the information is publicly available on glassdoor. A couple reasons why I didn't list comp: 1. I didn't want to get candidates purely motivated by the high cash comp in the area. 2. Cash comp isn't core to how the company markets itself to employees and its culture. The company prefers to sell itself on being an employee friendly place to work. Like the article hypothesizes, I thought we'd get 50-100 resumes because it's so easy to apply for jobs on the internet and was surprised at how few we actually got.
  - ryandrake 11y ago
    Everyone is different, but I would always take a job posting more seriously if it listed at least a salary _range_. I at least know I'm not wasting my time going thorough the whole process only to learn that the comp package is way below what I would accept. Yea, there's always Glassdoor for that, but I'm not sure how much I trust that site's data.
    - aerique 11y ago
      Exactly, I wouldn't consider a job posting that doesn't mention salary seriously either. It reeks too much of a job that wants to take advantage of you while paying peanuts.
      - reagency 11y ago
        Almost no job postings mention salary, and most jobs are filled. Certainly the hundreds of thousands of bigco job ads don't post salaries, and startups don't either. Government does.
        logicallee 11y ago
        you leave out a very important segment of the job market, which is recruiters - who know salary ranges (part of the information they receive) and can match them to salary expectations before proceeding.
        aerique 11y ago
        Perhaps it's different in the US. Most job postings here in the Netherlands at least mention a salary range.
    - rch 11y ago
      Even when a CEO overhears a personal conversation and approaches to say they are looking for X, Y, and Z so I should contact the CTO directly, and here's his email, etc... I'm reticent to pursue the introduction. It's worse if such a person mentions beer and foosball.
GreenPlastic 11y ago
Can't post the exact description but the jist of it was: Strong understanding of objective C and iOS SDK Swift experience a plus Passion for design / UX Proven track record of quality apps in app store That's literally all I had under qualifications.
- ryandrake 11y ago
  What did you have under "here are some great benefits" or "why it's awesome to work here"?
  - GreenPlastic 11y ago
    Leaned on the company's official materials for this. Employee focused culture where we work hard and play hard. XX on best companies to work for list. Fast growing company with great benefits, dogs allowed at work, etc.
    - jes5199 11y ago
      OK, so apparently you decided not to try to entice people with the culture or benefits, either. Does the company have a recognizable name with a strong reputation? Because that's the only thing left that could convince someone to apply.
    - ryandrake 11y ago
      Here are some things I'd LOVE to see on a job posting, but never have: 1. Interview process MAX 1 afternoon. We commit to AFFIRMATIVELY giving you an accept or reject within 2 weeks. (in other words, we respect your time) 2. Need to hire for this position by [DATE]. (this is a real job opportunity and we are not just fishing) 3. We're not going to ask you to spend a weekend on a work sample or to write code for us for free. (again, we respect your time, and potentially your IP agreement with your current employer) 4. To apply, just upload your resume or send us your LinkedIn URL. You don't have to fill out a 500-form field online application. (see a pattern here?) 5. We offer detailed feedback after unsuccessful interviews. (we earnestly want you to re-apply later if you're better then) 6. If you're good but not an exact fit, we may suggest to you an alternate role rather than just reject and make you wonder if you should re-apply. (serious about finding talent rather than filling a specific narrow role) I'd also love to see the company publish their current employee retention rate for similar roles, but I know that's asking for a lot. When I already have a job, one of the main reasons I don't apply to other jobs more often, even ones that look very interesting, is that most hiring processes are opaque, endless, and generally painful. If you're not getting enough candidates into the funnel, maybe include something about how painless your particular funnel is.
logicallee 11y ago
How is your interview process? people would rather get a job using their skills within a few days, rather than go through an inappropriate interview process that does not select them This is just a guess, of course :) Is your HR/interview/hiring process easy for people to go through, who can do and have done the job?
WWLink 11y ago
Some recruiting sites (and recruiters) are pretty careless with the way they contact candidates too, though. I mention having done iOS related stuff on my resume, but I occasionally get an email or call from someone that is looking for a 1 man iOS development team lol. And they usually are offering a short term contract that pays much worse than my full time job does. It's funny because they get REALLY persistent about it too. Like a pissed off "I've been trying to reach you for the past week!" type of attitude.
- ionforce 11y ago
  Dear WWLink, Please stop pissing away this once in a career opportunity! -Recruiter McRecruiterson
walshemj 11y ago
So from my perspective for job search linkedin would be a second tier site I wound't even search on glassdoor and indeed is considered where the "shit" jobs go and that is a direct quote from a director of one of the big UK job sites.
- reagency 11y ago
  A Glassdoor competitor said Glass door is bad? Unassailable authority.
  - walshemj 11y ago
    No a director of a market leader said that indeed was shit. and who the F looks for jobs on glassdoor or posts jobs on a site where all your negative points are on display
    - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
      Because they're scared shitless that Indeed is taking away their business. Monster used to be the leader and they squandered it all away with a crappy, candidate hostile site. Nobody else could come up with something better before Indeed because they were too focused on trying to wedge themselves into the position of profiteering middlemen to bother with improving the actual search process.
      - walshemj 11y ago
        Indeed are a scraper site ie "profiteering middlemen" that you seem to dislike so much
        kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
        Indeed drives traffic to employers that host their own job postings. How is that a bad thing? They also provide their own listings service and aren't "just scraping". Having a way to directly contact an HR department is far more efficient than going through the additional recruiter hoop jumping BS with traditional job sites.

hayksaakian 11y ago

Try posting the same exact thing in Craigslist. There's too much tangential noise in those websites.

xeni 11y ago

Any chance you could link the listing (or paste the description)? Just curious to see what sort of things you're looking for. I'm currently 5 months into my first full-time iOS dev position. I'm also really curious to know what sort of questions you ask during your interview process (both pre-screens and onsite). I understand if you don't want to share info on that though :)

smil 11y ago

So compensation is not relevant to your point at all since you didn't list it. Or were you looking for mind readers? The low response rate makes sense in that case.

GreenPlastic 11y ago
Fair enough, but the information is publicly available on glassdoor. A couple reasons why I didn't list comp: 1. I didn't want to get candidates purely motivated by the high cash comp in the area. 2. Cash comp isn't core to how the company markets itself to employees and its culture. The company prefers to sell itself on being an employee friendly place to work. Like the article hypothesizes, I thought we'd get 50-100 resumes because it's so easy to apply for jobs on the internet and was surprised at how few we actually got.
- ryandrake 11y ago
  Everyone is different, but I would always take a job posting more seriously if it listed at least a salary _range_. I at least know I'm not wasting my time going thorough the whole process only to learn that the comp package is way below what I would accept. Yea, there's always Glassdoor for that, but I'm not sure how much I trust that site's data.
  - aerique 11y ago
    Exactly, I wouldn't consider a job posting that doesn't mention salary seriously either. It reeks too much of a job that wants to take advantage of you while paying peanuts.
    - reagency 11y ago
      Almost no job postings mention salary, and most jobs are filled. Certainly the hundreds of thousands of bigco job ads don't post salaries, and startups don't either. Government does.
      - logicallee 11y ago
        you leave out a very important segment of the job market, which is recruiters - who know salary ranges (part of the information they receive) and can match them to salary expectations before proceeding.
      - aerique 11y ago
        Perhaps it's different in the US. Most job postings here in the Netherlands at least mention a salary range.
  - rch 11y ago
    Even when a CEO overhears a personal conversation and approaches to say they are looking for X, Y, and Z so I should contact the CTO directly, and here's his email, etc... I'm reticent to pursue the introduction. It's worse if such a person mentions beer and foosball.

GreenPlastic 11y ago

Can't post the exact description but the jist of it was: Strong understanding of objective C and iOS SDK Swift experience a plus Passion for design / UX Proven track record of quality apps in app store That's literally all I had under qualifications.

ryandrake 11y ago
What did you have under "here are some great benefits" or "why it's awesome to work here"?
- GreenPlastic 11y ago
  Leaned on the company's official materials for this. Employee focused culture where we work hard and play hard. XX on best companies to work for list. Fast growing company with great benefits, dogs allowed at work, etc.
  - jes5199 11y ago
    OK, so apparently you decided not to try to entice people with the culture or benefits, either. Does the company have a recognizable name with a strong reputation? Because that's the only thing left that could convince someone to apply.
  - ryandrake 11y ago
    Here are some things I'd LOVE to see on a job posting, but never have: 1. Interview process MAX 1 afternoon. We commit to AFFIRMATIVELY giving you an accept or reject within 2 weeks. (in other words, we respect your time) 2. Need to hire for this position by [DATE]. (this is a real job opportunity and we are not just fishing) 3. We're not going to ask you to spend a weekend on a work sample or to write code for us for free. (again, we respect your time, and potentially your IP agreement with your current employer) 4. To apply, just upload your resume or send us your LinkedIn URL. You don't have to fill out a 500-form field online application. (see a pattern here?) 5. We offer detailed feedback after unsuccessful interviews. (we earnestly want you to re-apply later if you're better then) 6. If you're good but not an exact fit, we may suggest to you an alternate role rather than just reject and make you wonder if you should re-apply. (serious about finding talent rather than filling a specific narrow role) I'd also love to see the company publish their current employee retention rate for similar roles, but I know that's asking for a lot. When I already have a job, one of the main reasons I don't apply to other jobs more often, even ones that look very interesting, is that most hiring processes are opaque, endless, and generally painful. If you're not getting enough candidates into the funnel, maybe include something about how painless your particular funnel is.

logicallee 11y ago

How is your interview process? people would rather get a job using their skills within a few days, rather than go through an inappropriate interview process that does not select them This is just a guess, of course :) Is your HR/interview/hiring process easy for people to go through, who can do and have done the job?

WWLink 11y ago

Some recruiting sites (and recruiters) are pretty careless with the way they contact candidates too, though. I mention having done iOS related stuff on my resume, but I occasionally get an email or call from someone that is looking for a 1 man iOS development team lol. And they usually are offering a short term contract that pays much worse than my full time job does. It's funny because they get REALLY persistent about it too. Like a pissed off "I've been trying to reach you for the past week!" type of attitude.

ionforce 11y ago
Dear WWLink, Please stop pissing away this once in a career opportunity! -Recruiter McRecruiterson

walshemj 11y ago

So from my perspective for job search linkedin would be a second tier site I wound't even search on glassdoor and indeed is considered where the "shit" jobs go and that is a direct quote from a director of one of the big UK job sites.

reagency 11y ago
A Glassdoor competitor said Glass door is bad? Unassailable authority.
- walshemj 11y ago
  No a director of a market leader said that indeed was shit. and who the F looks for jobs on glassdoor or posts jobs on a site where all your negative points are on display
  - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
    Because they're scared shitless that Indeed is taking away their business. Monster used to be the leader and they squandered it all away with a crappy, candidate hostile site. Nobody else could come up with something better before Indeed because they were too focused on trying to wedge themselves into the position of profiteering middlemen to bother with improving the actual search process.
    - walshemj 11y ago
      Indeed are a scraper site ie "profiteering middlemen" that you seem to dislike so much
      - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
        Indeed drives traffic to employers that host their own job postings. How is that a bad thing? They also provide their own listings service and aren't "just scraping". Having a way to directly contact an HR department is far more efficient than going through the additional recruiter hoop jumping BS with traditional job sites.