5 ms·

How to Earn an Elite Law Degree in the United States for $28k

52 points by burritofanatic 11y ago

bruceb 11y ago
The BBC article seems to underestimate costs a bit. There is 4k in travel costs over 4 years assuming you visit home once a year. Some things cost more in Europe (computers maybe 15% more). Also one could argue you have less of a network of people if you go to school in one country but live in another. This could be a significant cost but hard to measure. This being said it is certainly worth exploring. Anyone earned a law degree outside the US and then earned a LLM?
- goatforce5 11y ago
  > Some things cost more in Europe (computers maybe 15% more) Buy your computer and gadgets when you're in the US.
  - bruceb 11y ago
    Yes would be the way to go but your laptop brakes or gets stolen then you need one now. Point is there are something you would have to buy at higher cost there.
    - pluma 11y ago
      Lots of places offer student discounts. Unless you need an MBP, you can get a decent laptop for cheap. We're talking about law students, it's not like they need resource intensive software.
  - pluma 11y ago
    Make sure to buy (and use) them in advance or you'll have to declare them as imports, which can be expensive (doubly so if you don't declare them).
Havoc 11y ago
Only issue with this is that the German taxpayers might grow wary of Americans performing these drive-by educations at their expense. The entire system is based on the assumption that a reasonable portion will stay in Germany & contribute towards society. The whole article & the mindset behind it is a little sad in my opinion. To borrow a reddit phrase "this is why we can't have nice things".
- bruceb 11y ago
  Seems this could be solved partially with a rebate system. You stay you get $X back (or in this case euros).
  - Havoc 11y ago
    That would be one option. The current system is working as is though - no enforcement & almost honour based. It would be nice to keep it that way. I get why Americans would do this given their crushing education costs, but at the end of the day the German education isn't "free" either...the taxpayer foots the bill & in the long run said taxpayer wants to receive some benefit for that money.
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  The number of US students doing a degree and out in Germany is and will continue to be fairly low. While German is by any realistic standard fairly easy for an English speaker that's at least three months of full-time work if you're starting from nothing, if you work real hard. And after three to five years studying in Germany lots of people will have friends and relationships. Social ties matter. Loads of Africans, Russians, etc. have been doing this before.
- ma2rten 11y ago
  Unless Americans come in masses, I think, Germans are actually happy to have the cultural and language exchange with them. The marginal cost for adding a couple of students is not going to be very much.
- x5n1 11y ago
  Germans are not stupid people. They will adapt. Take advantage of this while it lasts. Not to mention it is not easy to get into German schools either. But if you are at the top of your class you should not have a problem.
barry-cotter 11y ago
A German Law degree will take five years, not four. UT Austin is not elite by any meaning of the word. Rest of the article seems legit.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  Is a German law degree a post graduate degree? I don't think its quite accurate to compare a JD to a law degree that doesn't require a separate undergrad degree.
  - anigbrowl 11y ago
    Most European countries teach law (and medicine) as undergraduate subjects, but I wouldn't say those programs any less academically rigorous.
  - reagency 11y ago
    Much of Europe skips the 2-year 'liberal arts' portion of undergrad.
  - barry-cotter 11y ago
    It's a five year direct entry undergraduate degree. German universities only recently started granting Bachelor's and Master's degrees separately, instead of having the Magister or Diplom (direct entry Master's) as the lowest degree. Law and Medicine maintain the old model. Besides, German University preparatory high schools are at least equivalent to an A.A./A.S.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
- reagency 11y ago
  UT Law is absolutely an elite (tier-1) law school for purposes of the USA Big Law firm recruiting and lockstep salary.
  - 11y ago
Romoku 11y ago
If only there was one of these for computer science degrees. I stopped part way through my degree because the tuition was ridiculous ($1000 per credit hour). Now I'm at a point where I want to finish, but all undergraduate programs in my area are oriented at full time students. The only place with online and night classes has equally ridiculous tuition ($60,000 to finish the program).
- ma2rten 11y ago
  The same applies. Just study in Germany. No need to go a US school for 1 year.
  - electriclove 11y ago
    And then get your Masters in CS at Georgia Tech for ~$7k: http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/ http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/
    - ma2rten 11y ago
      Not even. Unlike lawyers CS masters can work around the world, a German Master will do just fine.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
    - ma2rten 11y ago
      There is no age cut off. German constitution allows everyone to study. Students who study abroad often have problems getting credits recognized, that will apply to you even more so. Then again, I don't think you have to take "Introduction to Programming" again if you already have 10 years of work experience. I think you'll be able to work something out with them. There are some program thought in English, try this site: https://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/international-programs/en/ https://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/internationa...
- opi980 11y ago
rayiner 11y ago
You can do something similar in the UK too. My brother's friend did her law degree as an undergraduate at Oxford and an LLM here in the U.S. Law school as three year graduate degree is a huge scam.
- hackerboos 11y ago
  Tuition in the UK is not free for foreigners. Foreigners (except EU) are not entitled to borrow through the UK loans system.
pdabbadabba 11y ago
This is an interesting strategy but, while UT is (in my estimation) an elite law school, I'm not sure a 1 year LLM from UT would get you nearly as far in the U.S. job market as a J.D. So, while the title may technically be accurate, it misses the fact that not all "elite law degrees" are equally useful. That said, it saves you so much money, that maybe this approach nonetheless has merit. Though if you have the chops to pull this scheme off, you could probably do what many top-tier aspiring law students do today: apply to a variety of schools, and go to the best school that gives you a large scholarship.
- anigbrowl 11y ago
  I think it would depend a lot on what area of law you wanted to practice, and on where you got your undergraduate law degree. It could be very useful to have a foreign degree if one aimed to work in commercial, shipping, or immigration law, for example. And knowledge of British law, Commonwealth law, or Civil law as well as American law would surely be useful for an academic career.
  - pdabbadabba 11y ago
    True enough. But the point is that this would greatly limit your options relative to a JD. If you happen to be interested in a field where a German law degree would be a benefit, then great. But that is probably not true for most people. Having been tangentially involved in legal recruiting, U.S. law firms are very much looking for people who satisfy particular criteria, and these criteria are developed with the assumption that a student went through the conventional American legal education system. (Think, GPA, law journal experience, moot court, judicial clerkships [yes, you can get one with an LLM, but it will be much harder without the faculty connections you build over several years], etc.) In short, they are looking for a "certain kind" of resume. For most, a German law degree with a U.S. LLM will not readily meet that test. I'm not saying, of course, that it will be impossible to get a job. I'm just saying that a person with that sort of resume will be swimming upstream compared to her UT friends with JDs. It might be tempting to say that you would not want to work someplace that takes this approach to hiring. But, for better or worse, most people probably would.
littletimmy 11y ago
Can you practice law in the US if you're trained in a different tradition of law? I was under the impression Germany follows civil law, and the USA common law.
- burritofanatic 11y ago
  Author here, the LLM can be used as a bootcamp of sorts on American law for foreign trained lawyers.
  - barry-cotter 11y ago
    AIUI almost all of the actual mandatory professional education in US law school occurs in the first year, 1L. It's possible and occasionally useful to do more focused professional study in 2L and 3L if you want to but you can equally fill your schedule with Literature and the Law or the like. An MLS (Master of Legal Studies) covers the same material as an Ll.M./1L, is open to non lawyers and qualifies one for nothing.
- _asummers 11y ago
  California does not require a law degree to practice, although their bar exam is apparently extremely difficult. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/BecomingALawyer.aspx#6 http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/BecomingALawyer.as...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
brkochman 11y ago
There is a problem with this approach, and that is the fact that nobody in the United States will recognize your university. Want to make a great first impression? Graduate from Harvard, Stanford, or MIT. Nobody is going to know the name of some random German university. At least not in the United States.
- pdabbadabba 11y ago
  Well, I think the idea is that by re-repatriating your law degree at UT, you're putting a prestigious, recognized name at the top of your resume. (I assure you that UT is a recognized name in law, though you can substitute Yale, Stanford, Harvard, etc. if you like.) The problem, I think, is that a one-year LLM just won't open as many doors as a JD from the same school. (But it will open some!)
- akhilcacharya 11y ago
  I really hate comments like this, I don't think 3 universities hold the monopoly on impressiveness.
  - dbushnel 11y ago
    Well, it is pretty much true though. Where I work, not even Cornell is considered prestigious. You gotta have Harvard, Stanford, or MIT to stand out.
    - akhilcacharya 11y ago
      Dear God, I wonder how your colleagues would react to my future degree.
- johnloeber 11y ago
  Sure, obviously there's a point at which the prestige of a top school can outweigh the cost of attendance. But most people do not go to top schools. I think the article addresses prospective undergraduates at mid- and lower-tier colleges. These schools are nowhere near as prestigious, but comparably expensive. If a US school is not particularly strongly recognized, is it really worth it to dish out between $50k and $200k? On top of that, note that going to study in a foreign country would hopefully give you fluency in a foreign language. The Economist ran a piece on the lifetime value of knowing a foreign language[0] -- for German in particular, the assessed value is $128k. Considering the opportunity cost, is it really still worth it to go to the low-ranked US school? All this being considered, if you're still of the opinion that a US degree is somehow essential, the obvious response is to get a masters in the states. [0] http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2014/03/language-study http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2014/03/language-stu...
reagency 11y ago
Silly to compare resident tuition for the LLM against nonresident tuition for JD. Residency is equally easy in either case.
bane 11y ago
U.S. Higher Ed is expensive, So, I just planned out some degrees at my local state schools to see what they go for (tuition only). Year 1, 2 (graduate with an A.A./A.S. degree) - Community College: ~$4000/yr Year 3,4 (graduate with a B.A./B.S. degree) - State School, starts as a Junior: ~$11,000/yr Undergrad: <$30,000 Grad Program: Year 5,6 (same school, graduate with an M.A./M.S.) - State School ~$15k/yr Grad Program: ~$30,000 Total Cost: ~$60,000 As an alternate: Year 5,6 (same school, top-50 Law School, graduate with a J.D.) - State School - ~$25k/yr J.D. Program: ~$50,000 Total Cost B.X.+J.D. ~$80k Total Cost B.X.+M.X.+J.D. ~$110k Things have definitely gotten more expensive since I did something similar (A.S.->B.S.->M.S.) for <$30k. But it's not the worst. If you work through it, you can probably finish an M.X. program without debt (you "only" need to pay off $10k per year). Even if you take loans, we're not talking a house. If you get Pell Grants, it covers the A.X. degrees easily, and half the B.X. degrees. I took some loans and paid them off within 5 years due to my increased earning power. I'm pretty sure I could have structured my life to pay off 2-3x the loans in about the same amount of time. American Higher Ed. is stupid expensive for bad reasons, but you can get at least an undergrad for what you'd pay for a new decent family sedan. This sounds crazy to most of my European readers, but unlike Europe, the U.S. doesn't have 50% youth unemployment rates. Most people out of college in technical fields can get good jobs that pay far in excess of the local "decent standard of living" allowing loans like this to get paid off quickly. It's complicated, but it's not rocket science. I'm always a bit bothered by people who talk about $200k undergrad programs like it's their only option. Trust me, I'm ~20 years in on a career and you'll generally end up in the same places as your elite-school colleagues within 5 years without the crushing debt. It's not rocket science.
unimportant 11y ago
This is what Germans would call a milk maid calculation. Your German would need to be really advanced for you to have a realistic chance with the degree. Secondly the entry requirements to study law are really high (if you're German, you'd need to be a straight A student, not sure about foreigners). There's also no way that you'd pay 280EUR in Munich for rent, even in a dorm or shared housing. The luckiest guy I knew had a tiny student apartment for 500EUR. If you aren't eating instant noodles all day, there's also no way you'll survive on the grocery budget. A realistic food budget is 300EUR a month, even if you don't eat out.
geebee 11y ago
Overall, I really liked this article, and I appreciate not just the strategy but that it encourages people to start thinking about different strategies. A few things that may or may not be nitpicks… first, can you really practice law in every jurisdiction with an LLM? I was under the impression that this is only true of some states. I may read up more on this. Also, I believe Germany does allow dual citizenship under some circumstances - I think if you're not German and acquire German citizenship, you can keep the old one, but not the other way around - again, if this would affect you in any way, well, I hope you'd research beyond someone's semi-informed comment on the internet ;). As a side-topic, I was intrigued by some of the recent all-online JD degrees offered in the US. There were a few articles on this a while back. http://abovethelaw.com/career-files/the-best-online-law-schools-jd-and-llm-programs/ http://abovethelaw.com/career-files/the-best-online-law-scho... These degrees are absolutely not elite, though St Francis seems at first glance to have a decent student body. I think the approach can work for a certain type of law career. I don't think this would be advisable for the 23 year old history major with no real skills or work experience other than a law degree - that person would want to get the most elite degree possible. But the story about the mid career structural engineer who discovered he was offering as much legal as engineering advice (liability for building codes, etc), and who has a head council job lined up once bar member ship is achieved, sure, an on line degree probably makes perfect sense.
- burritofanatic 11y ago
  In regards to your question as to whether you can practice law in every jurisdiction, I'm starting to see that some jurisdiction are either silent, or prohibit someone with a foreign law degree + LLM to sit for their bar exam. But if you include the ability of reciprocity after admission to the Texas state bar, it opens up a lot of doors.
mcnett 11y ago
"But what she’ll do for sure is waive into DC off the bat after passing in Texas." This is not possible. DC's admission on motion requires a five-year wait if you do not have a J.D. http://www.dccourts.gov/internet/documents/rule46c3_admission_on_motion-without_exam.pdf http://www.dccourts.gov/internet/documents/rule46c3_admissio...

The BBC article seems to underestimate costs a bit. There is 4k in travel costs over 4 years assuming you visit home once a year. Some things cost more in Europe (computers maybe 15% more). Also one could argue you have less of a network of people if you go to school in one country but live in another. This could be a significant cost but hard to measure. This being said it is certainly worth exploring. Anyone earned a law degree outside the US and then earned a LLM?

goatforce5 11y ago
> Some things cost more in Europe (computers maybe 15% more) Buy your computer and gadgets when you're in the US.
- bruceb 11y ago
  Yes would be the way to go but your laptop brakes or gets stolen then you need one now. Point is there are something you would have to buy at higher cost there.
  - pluma 11y ago
    Lots of places offer student discounts. Unless you need an MBP, you can get a decent laptop for cheap. We're talking about law students, it's not like they need resource intensive software.
- pluma 11y ago
  Make sure to buy (and use) them in advance or you'll have to declare them as imports, which can be expensive (doubly so if you don't declare them).

Havoc 11y ago

Only issue with this is that the German taxpayers might grow wary of Americans performing these drive-by educations at their expense. The entire system is based on the assumption that a reasonable portion will stay in Germany & contribute towards society. The whole article & the mindset behind it is a little sad in my opinion. To borrow a reddit phrase "this is why we can't have nice things".

bruceb 11y ago
Seems this could be solved partially with a rebate system. You stay you get $X back (or in this case euros).
- Havoc 11y ago
  That would be one option. The current system is working as is though - no enforcement & almost honour based. It would be nice to keep it that way. I get why Americans would do this given their crushing education costs, but at the end of the day the German education isn't "free" either...the taxpayer foots the bill & in the long run said taxpayer wants to receive some benefit for that money.
barry-cotter 11y ago
The number of US students doing a degree and out in Germany is and will continue to be fairly low. While German is by any realistic standard fairly easy for an English speaker that's at least three months of full-time work if you're starting from nothing, if you work real hard. And after three to five years studying in Germany lots of people will have friends and relationships. Social ties matter. Loads of Africans, Russians, etc. have been doing this before.
ma2rten 11y ago
Unless Americans come in masses, I think, Germans are actually happy to have the cultural and language exchange with them. The marginal cost for adding a couple of students is not going to be very much.
x5n1 11y ago
Germans are not stupid people. They will adapt. Take advantage of this while it lasts. Not to mention it is not easy to get into German schools either. But if you are at the top of your class you should not have a problem.

barry-cotter 11y ago

A German Law degree will take five years, not four. UT Austin is not elite by any meaning of the word. Rest of the article seems legit.

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
Is a German law degree a post graduate degree? I don't think its quite accurate to compare a JD to a law degree that doesn't require a separate undergrad degree.
- anigbrowl 11y ago
  Most European countries teach law (and medicine) as undergraduate subjects, but I wouldn't say those programs any less academically rigorous.
- reagency 11y ago
  Much of Europe skips the 2-year 'liberal arts' portion of undergrad.
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  It's a five year direct entry undergraduate degree. German universities only recently started granting Bachelor's and Master's degrees separately, instead of having the Magister or Diplom (direct entry Master's) as the lowest degree. Law and Medicine maintain the old model. Besides, German University preparatory high schools are at least equivalent to an A.A./A.S.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
reagency 11y ago
UT Law is absolutely an elite (tier-1) law school for purposes of the USA Big Law firm recruiting and lockstep salary.
- 11y ago

Romoku 11y ago

If only there was one of these for computer science degrees. I stopped part way through my degree because the tuition was ridiculous ($1000 per credit hour). Now I'm at a point where I want to finish, but all undergraduate programs in my area are oriented at full time students. The only place with online and night classes has equally ridiculous tuition ($60,000 to finish the program).

ma2rten 11y ago
The same applies. Just study in Germany. No need to go a US school for 1 year.
- electriclove 11y ago
  And then get your Masters in CS at Georgia Tech for ~$7k: http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/ http://www.omscs.gatech.edu/
  - ma2rten 11y ago
    Not even. Unlike lawyers CS masters can work around the world, a German Master will do just fine.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
  - ma2rten 11y ago
    There is no age cut off. German constitution allows everyone to study. Students who study abroad often have problems getting credits recognized, that will apply to you even more so. Then again, I don't think you have to take "Introduction to Programming" again if you already have 10 years of work experience. I think you'll be able to work something out with them. There are some program thought in English, try this site: https://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/international-programs/en/ https://www.daad.de/deutschland/studienangebote/internationa...
opi980 11y ago

rayiner 11y ago

You can do something similar in the UK too. My brother's friend did her law degree as an undergraduate at Oxford and an LLM here in the U.S. Law school as three year graduate degree is a huge scam.

hackerboos 11y ago
Tuition in the UK is not free for foreigners. Foreigners (except EU) are not entitled to borrow through the UK loans system.

pdabbadabba 11y ago

This is an interesting strategy but, while UT is (in my estimation) an elite law school, I'm not sure a 1 year LLM from UT would get you nearly as far in the U.S. job market as a J.D. So, while the title may technically be accurate, it misses the fact that not all "elite law degrees" are equally useful. That said, it saves you so much money, that maybe this approach nonetheless has merit. Though if you have the chops to pull this scheme off, you could probably do what many top-tier aspiring law students do today: apply to a variety of schools, and go to the best school that gives you a large scholarship.

anigbrowl 11y ago
I think it would depend a lot on what area of law you wanted to practice, and on where you got your undergraduate law degree. It could be very useful to have a foreign degree if one aimed to work in commercial, shipping, or immigration law, for example. And knowledge of British law, Commonwealth law, or Civil law as well as American law would surely be useful for an academic career.
- pdabbadabba 11y ago
  True enough. But the point is that this would greatly limit your options relative to a JD. If you happen to be interested in a field where a German law degree would be a benefit, then great. But that is probably not true for most people. Having been tangentially involved in legal recruiting, U.S. law firms are very much looking for people who satisfy particular criteria, and these criteria are developed with the assumption that a student went through the conventional American legal education system. (Think, GPA, law journal experience, moot court, judicial clerkships [yes, you can get one with an LLM, but it will be much harder without the faculty connections you build over several years], etc.) In short, they are looking for a "certain kind" of resume. For most, a German law degree with a U.S. LLM will not readily meet that test. I'm not saying, of course, that it will be impossible to get a job. I'm just saying that a person with that sort of resume will be swimming upstream compared to her UT friends with JDs. It might be tempting to say that you would not want to work someplace that takes this approach to hiring. But, for better or worse, most people probably would.

littletimmy 11y ago

Can you practice law in the US if you're trained in a different tradition of law? I was under the impression Germany follows civil law, and the USA common law.

burritofanatic 11y ago
Author here, the LLM can be used as a bootcamp of sorts on American law for foreign trained lawyers.
- barry-cotter 11y ago
  AIUI almost all of the actual mandatory professional education in US law school occurs in the first year, 1L. It's possible and occasionally useful to do more focused professional study in 2L and 3L if you want to but you can equally fill your schedule with Literature and the Law or the like. An MLS (Master of Legal Studies) covers the same material as an Ll.M./1L, is open to non lawyers and qualifies one for nothing.
_asummers 11y ago
California does not require a law degree to practice, although their bar exam is apparently extremely difficult. http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/BecomingALawyer.aspx#6 http://www.calbar.ca.gov/Public/Pamphlets/BecomingALawyer.as...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

brkochman 11y ago

There is a problem with this approach, and that is the fact that nobody in the United States will recognize your university. Want to make a great first impression? Graduate from Harvard, Stanford, or MIT. Nobody is going to know the name of some random German university. At least not in the United States.

pdabbadabba 11y ago
Well, I think the idea is that by re-repatriating your law degree at UT, you're putting a prestigious, recognized name at the top of your resume. (I assure you that UT is a recognized name in law, though you can substitute Yale, Stanford, Harvard, etc. if you like.) The problem, I think, is that a one-year LLM just won't open as many doors as a JD from the same school. (But it will open some!)
akhilcacharya 11y ago
I really hate comments like this, I don't think 3 universities hold the monopoly on impressiveness.
- dbushnel 11y ago
  Well, it is pretty much true though. Where I work, not even Cornell is considered prestigious. You gotta have Harvard, Stanford, or MIT to stand out.
  - akhilcacharya 11y ago
    Dear God, I wonder how your colleagues would react to my future degree.
johnloeber 11y ago
Sure, obviously there's a point at which the prestige of a top school can outweigh the cost of attendance. But most people do not go to top schools. I think the article addresses prospective undergraduates at mid- and lower-tier colleges. These schools are nowhere near as prestigious, but comparably expensive. If a US school is not particularly strongly recognized, is it really worth it to dish out between $50k and $200k? On top of that, note that going to study in a foreign country would hopefully give you fluency in a foreign language. The Economist ran a piece on the lifetime value of knowing a foreign language[0] -- for German in particular, the assessed value is $128k. Considering the opportunity cost, is it really still worth it to go to the low-ranked US school? All this being considered, if you're still of the opinion that a US degree is somehow essential, the obvious response is to get a masters in the states. [0] http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2014/03/language-study http://www.economist.com/blogs/prospero/2014/03/language-stu...

reagency 11y ago

Silly to compare resident tuition for the LLM against nonresident tuition for JD. Residency is equally easy in either case.

bane 11y ago

U.S. Higher Ed is expensive, So, I just planned out some degrees at my local state schools to see what they go for (tuition only). Year 1, 2 (graduate with an A.A./A.S. degree) - Community College: ~$4000/yr Year 3,4 (graduate with a B.A./B.S. degree) - State School, starts as a Junior: ~$11,000/yr Undergrad: <$30,000 Grad Program: Year 5,6 (same school, graduate with an M.A./M.S.) - State School ~$15k/yr Grad Program: ~$30,000 Total Cost: ~$60,000 As an alternate: Year 5,6 (same school, top-50 Law School, graduate with a J.D.) - State School - ~$25k/yr J.D. Program: ~$50,000 Total Cost B.X.+J.D. ~$80k Total Cost B.X.+M.X.+J.D. ~$110k Things have definitely gotten more expensive since I did something similar (A.S.->B.S.->M.S.) for <$30k. But it's not the worst. If you work through it, you can probably finish an M.X. program without debt (you "only" need to pay off $10k per year). Even if you take loans, we're not talking a house. If you get Pell Grants, it covers the A.X. degrees easily, and half the B.X. degrees. I took some loans and paid them off within 5 years due to my increased earning power. I'm pretty sure I could have structured my life to pay off 2-3x the loans in about the same amount of time. American Higher Ed. is stupid expensive for bad reasons, but you can get at least an undergrad for what you'd pay for a new decent family sedan. This sounds crazy to most of my European readers, but unlike Europe, the U.S. doesn't have 50% youth unemployment rates. Most people out of college in technical fields can get good jobs that pay far in excess of the local "decent standard of living" allowing loans like this to get paid off quickly. It's complicated, but it's not rocket science. I'm always a bit bothered by people who talk about $200k undergrad programs like it's their only option. Trust me, I'm ~20 years in on a career and you'll generally end up in the same places as your elite-school colleagues within 5 years without the crushing debt. It's not rocket science.

unimportant 11y ago

This is what Germans would call a milk maid calculation. Your German would need to be really advanced for you to have a realistic chance with the degree. Secondly the entry requirements to study law are really high (if you're German, you'd need to be a straight A student, not sure about foreigners). There's also no way that you'd pay 280EUR in Munich for rent, even in a dorm or shared housing. The luckiest guy I knew had a tiny student apartment for 500EUR. If you aren't eating instant noodles all day, there's also no way you'll survive on the grocery budget. A realistic food budget is 300EUR a month, even if you don't eat out.

geebee 11y ago

Overall, I really liked this article, and I appreciate not just the strategy but that it encourages people to start thinking about different strategies. A few things that may or may not be nitpicks… first, can you really practice law in every jurisdiction with an LLM? I was under the impression that this is only true of some states. I may read up more on this. Also, I believe Germany does allow dual citizenship under some circumstances - I think if you're not German and acquire German citizenship, you can keep the old one, but not the other way around - again, if this would affect you in any way, well, I hope you'd research beyond someone's semi-informed comment on the internet ;). As a side-topic, I was intrigued by some of the recent all-online JD degrees offered in the US. There were a few articles on this a while back. http://abovethelaw.com/career-files/the-best-online-law-schools-jd-and-llm-programs/ http://abovethelaw.com/career-files/the-best-online-law-scho... These degrees are absolutely not elite, though St Francis seems at first glance to have a decent student body. I think the approach can work for a certain type of law career. I don't think this would be advisable for the 23 year old history major with no real skills or work experience other than a law degree - that person would want to get the most elite degree possible. But the story about the mid career structural engineer who discovered he was offering as much legal as engineering advice (liability for building codes, etc), and who has a head council job lined up once bar member ship is achieved, sure, an on line degree probably makes perfect sense.

burritofanatic 11y ago
In regards to your question as to whether you can practice law in every jurisdiction, I'm starting to see that some jurisdiction are either silent, or prohibit someone with a foreign law degree + LLM to sit for their bar exam. But if you include the ability of reciprocity after admission to the Texas state bar, it opens up a lot of doors.

mcnett 11y ago

"But what she’ll do for sure is waive into DC off the bat after passing in Texas." This is not possible. DC's admission on motion requires a five-year wait if you do not have a J.D. http://www.dccourts.gov/internet/documents/rule46c3_admission_on_motion-without_exam.pdf http://www.dccourts.gov/internet/documents/rule46c3_admissio...