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ISIL is used as a proxy force by all powers that can effectively manipulate them, but they are also a force of their own. The US heavily invests in using video

ISIL is used as a proxy force by all powers that can effectively manipulate them, but they are also a force of their own. The US heavily invests in using video games for propaganda and ISIL and Sunni-insurgent forces have been exposed to a number of anti-Assad video games. Hamas is unlikely to be the progenitor of anti-Assad video themed video games. It's speculative, but it makes a lot of sense that the US would do what it can to direct ire at Assad. What's not speculative is that Turkey and the US were running guns to groups that became ISIL factions in Syria. There's lots of influence to be had all over. The larger powers are trying to manage the situation to achieve their ends. That means funding insurgent groups where it benefits them and bombing the same groups from the air where they are challenged.

boreas 11y ago
Can you provide a source for US "gun running" to ISIL factions in Syria? It is well known that Turkey's intelligence agency is doing this, but I've never heard the same accusation leveled at the US. Also I would love to see these anti-Assad video games, even though it seems like American involvement is your own analysis.
- SmokyBourbon 11y ago
  Here's some sources unrelated to the new leak: http://www.examiner.com/article/did-cia-and-state-department-run-illegal-arms-trafficking-benghazi http://www.examiner.com/article/did-cia-and-state-department... Remember Christopher Stevens, the US ambassador to Libya who got murdered in Benghazi? When he was killed, he was working to secure the stockpiles of weapons in Libya after the US helped al-Qaeda oust Gaddafi. The article, which was written in 2012 identifies Abdulhakim Belhadj as the guy who was telling the Americans which groups they could trust and give arms to. According to this article from March of this year, he's now the head of ISIL/ISIS in Libya: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/3/frank-gaffney-jr-us-backed-rebel-reportedly-leads-/print/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/3/frank-gaffney... Back in 2004, the CIA and MI6 captured him and his wife and secretly flew them to Libya so that Gadaffi could torture him for information. He was "chained to a window, deprived of sleep, beaten, hung from the walls and kept in solitary confinement" with British intelligence providing the questions for the interrogation. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/30/abdel-hakim-belhaj-court-kidnap-mi6-cia-torture http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/30/abdel-hakim-bel... I don't know what would be worse: that the Obama administration deliberately armed ISIS/ISIL or that it was stupid enough to give weapons to a guy the CIA had tortured. I guess the leaks will tell us which.
- smitherfield 11y ago
  Yeah, it's not exactly like the US is the only place in which video games can be created, especially since they almost certainly aren't exactly AAA stuff. (More like a Counter-Strike mod at best, I would imagine).
  - themeekforgotpw 11y ago
    This is true, I would expect a number of countries to be able to pull it off if they were inclined to. Iran, Russia, China, Syria, US, Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia. Those are the choices. Palestine is very unlikely - though they have used video games in the past. Since the target is Syria it rules out China and Russia and Syria. Iraq is in essence a provincial government and isn't do that on its own accord. Iran could, but they aren't in the video game making business. Neither is Saudi Arabia. Given the DoD's investment in expanding propaganda operations to new media including video games, the US makes a lot of sense - though it would make some sense too if it was joint with Turkey. No smoking gun and not strong enough evidence to assume it, but it's not a crazy speculation.
- Abraln 11y ago
  I believe he is referencing the fact that a few years back the US armed a militant group that later became ISIL, as at that point they were fighting regimes the US was against. It's a big part of why calls to "arm the anti-ISIL rebels!" Are so cringe worthy.
- junto 11y ago
  Smokybourbon below is hellbanned, but his example is spot on. There were also rumours that the Russians helped upset the plan in Benghazi because of their support for Assad. Long (rumoured) story short was that the CIA were gun running for the anti-Assad groups. Russia blocks it using local Libyans. us uses propaganda to rename the CIA compound 'a consulate'. Again this is all rumour. Can anyone add any real proof?
- themeekforgotpw 11y ago
  http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-291-Pgs.-287-293-JW-v-DOD-and-State-14-812-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-... "The West, Gulf Countries, and Turkey support the opposition; while Russia, China and Iran support the regime." "If the situation unravels there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared salafist principality in Eastern Syria (Hasaka and Der Zor), and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the syrian regime, which is considered the strategic depth of the shia expanison (Iraq and Iran)." Released during a FOIA lawsuit (on special forces work in Syria). ["JW v Defense State 00812 court order"]. http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-sues-departments-defense-state-records-benghazi-briefings-congressional-leaders/ http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judic... http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Judicial_Watch http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Judicial_Watch http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-cia-operatives-on-the-ground-during-benghazi-attack/ http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-... Won't quote because its worth reading the whole thing for context. Associated facts (e.g. Turkey, US's equal partner, was caught running guns, Manning had [admittedly old] docs with CIA running guns to Syria) lend weight to the what was thought on Capitol Hill at the time. But broadly the US and allies support Salafist elements as they are, and can be encouraged to be, opposed to Assad.
- themeekforgotpw 11y ago
  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2937641/ISIS-fighters-distributing-video-game-allows-players-play-role-Islamist-kill-Westerners.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2937641/ISIS-fighter... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/27/us-airdrops-anti-isis-cartoon-propaganda-raqqa-syria http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/27/us-airdrops-ant... Search "Syria propaganda", "Syria video game propaganda" and if you want technical stuff "strategic communication video game". The past ten years or so of DoD propaganda planning has involved elements of and investments in video games (they already match Hollywood for industry size and are projected to grow; they are also great for propaganda - one NSA assessment was leaked by the journalists working with Snowden). This one is a speculation. All of the pieces are there. The technology and tactics are right, PSYOPs is now mainstream with conventional warfare (it's included in an umbrella term called 'hybrid warfare': IO and Conventional that includes the gambit of information warfare including electronic, espionage and psychological), Psychological Operations work in Syria has been disclosed by many channels - it's not really a secret. Jordan and Egypt are on that list but the document I saw was only about Twitter campaigns. Anyway I've ranted. It's speculative. It's just not absurd or a leap at all.

boreas 11y ago

Can you provide a source for US "gun running" to ISIL factions in Syria? It is well known that Turkey's intelligence agency is doing this, but I've never heard the same accusation leveled at the US. Also I would love to see these anti-Assad video games, even though it seems like American involvement is your own analysis.

SmokyBourbon 11y ago
Here's some sources unrelated to the new leak: http://www.examiner.com/article/did-cia-and-state-department-run-illegal-arms-trafficking-benghazi http://www.examiner.com/article/did-cia-and-state-department... Remember Christopher Stevens, the US ambassador to Libya who got murdered in Benghazi? When he was killed, he was working to secure the stockpiles of weapons in Libya after the US helped al-Qaeda oust Gaddafi. The article, which was written in 2012 identifies Abdulhakim Belhadj as the guy who was telling the Americans which groups they could trust and give arms to. According to this article from March of this year, he's now the head of ISIL/ISIS in Libya: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/3/frank-gaffney-jr-us-backed-rebel-reportedly-leads-/print/ http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/3/frank-gaffney... Back in 2004, the CIA and MI6 captured him and his wife and secretly flew them to Libya so that Gadaffi could torture him for information. He was "chained to a window, deprived of sleep, beaten, hung from the walls and kept in solitary confinement" with British intelligence providing the questions for the interrogation. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/30/abdel-hakim-belhaj-court-kidnap-mi6-cia-torture http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/30/abdel-hakim-bel... I don't know what would be worse: that the Obama administration deliberately armed ISIS/ISIL or that it was stupid enough to give weapons to a guy the CIA had tortured. I guess the leaks will tell us which.
smitherfield 11y ago
Yeah, it's not exactly like the US is the only place in which video games can be created, especially since they almost certainly aren't exactly AAA stuff. (More like a Counter-Strike mod at best, I would imagine).
- themeekforgotpw 11y ago
  This is true, I would expect a number of countries to be able to pull it off if they were inclined to. Iran, Russia, China, Syria, US, Turkey, Iraq, Saudi Arabia. Those are the choices. Palestine is very unlikely - though they have used video games in the past. Since the target is Syria it rules out China and Russia and Syria. Iraq is in essence a provincial government and isn't do that on its own accord. Iran could, but they aren't in the video game making business. Neither is Saudi Arabia. Given the DoD's investment in expanding propaganda operations to new media including video games, the US makes a lot of sense - though it would make some sense too if it was joint with Turkey. No smoking gun and not strong enough evidence to assume it, but it's not a crazy speculation.
Abraln 11y ago
I believe he is referencing the fact that a few years back the US armed a militant group that later became ISIL, as at that point they were fighting regimes the US was against. It's a big part of why calls to "arm the anti-ISIL rebels!" Are so cringe worthy.
junto 11y ago
Smokybourbon below is hellbanned, but his example is spot on. There were also rumours that the Russians helped upset the plan in Benghazi because of their support for Assad. Long (rumoured) story short was that the CIA were gun running for the anti-Assad groups. Russia blocks it using local Libyans. us uses propaganda to rename the CIA compound 'a consulate'. Again this is all rumour. Can anyone add any real proof?
themeekforgotpw 11y ago
http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-291-Pgs.-287-293-JW-v-DOD-and-State-14-812-DOD-Release-2015-04-10-final-version11.pdf http://www.judicialwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Pg.-... "The West, Gulf Countries, and Turkey support the opposition; while Russia, China and Iran support the regime." "If the situation unravels there is the possibility of establishing a declared or undeclared salafist principality in Eastern Syria (Hasaka and Der Zor), and this is exactly what the supporting powers to the opposition want, in order to isolate the syrian regime, which is considered the strategic depth of the shia expanison (Iraq and Iran)." Released during a FOIA lawsuit (on special forces work in Syria). ["JW v Defense State 00812 court order"]. http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-sues-departments-defense-state-records-benghazi-briefings-congressional-leaders/ http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judic... http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Judicial_Watch http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Judicial_Watch http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-cia-operatives-on-the-ground-during-benghazi-attack/ http://thelead.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/01/exclusive-dozens-of-... Won't quote because its worth reading the whole thing for context. Associated facts (e.g. Turkey, US's equal partner, was caught running guns, Manning had [admittedly old] docs with CIA running guns to Syria) lend weight to the what was thought on Capitol Hill at the time. But broadly the US and allies support Salafist elements as they are, and can be encouraged to be, opposed to Assad.
themeekforgotpw 11y ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2937641/ISIS-fighters-distributing-video-game-allows-players-play-role-Islamist-kill-Westerners.html http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2937641/ISIS-fighter... http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/27/us-airdrops-anti-isis-cartoon-propaganda-raqqa-syria http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/27/us-airdrops-ant... Search "Syria propaganda", "Syria video game propaganda" and if you want technical stuff "strategic communication video game". The past ten years or so of DoD propaganda planning has involved elements of and investments in video games (they already match Hollywood for industry size and are projected to grow; they are also great for propaganda - one NSA assessment was leaked by the journalists working with Snowden). This one is a speculation. All of the pieces are there. The technology and tactics are right, PSYOPs is now mainstream with conventional warfare (it's included in an umbrella term called 'hybrid warfare': IO and Conventional that includes the gambit of information warfare including electronic, espionage and psychological), Psychological Operations work in Syria has been disclosed by many channels - it's not really a secret. Jordan and Egypt are on that list but the document I saw was only about Twitter campaigns. Anyway I've ranted. It's speculative. It's just not absurd or a leap at all.