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> When I bought my first house, using money earned from co-founding a software company, I couldn’t believe that such abstract work could be exchanged for someth

> When I bought my first house, using money earned from co-founding a software company, I couldn’t believe that such abstract work could be exchanged for something so big and tangible, hewn from forests and rocks by people sweating in the sun. I've been writing software for years, and it still feels like magic. People work 3x as hard as me and I make 3x as much as them. Many make real, physical things; i just type away on a keyboard. With the right incantations, you can build something that's worth millions. Just you, in your free time, creating something that can be used by the entire world. Always reminds me of this louie CK interview on conan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEY58fiSK8E

mentat 11y ago
The product of your work does more than 3x what you could do by yourself though, that's why it's valued more / differently. A similar argument would be made for effective organizers and the force multiplication of coordinated work.
- eonw 11y ago
  likewise, almost anyone can chop wood or swing a hammer to break rocks.... no just anyone can write high quality code.
  - WalterBright 11y ago
    A power saw can do the work of a thousand men chopping wood - making the designer/builder of such a machine worth more compensation than the chopper.
- afarrell 11y ago
  Also programming skill is rare compared to the opportunity to apply it and this gives us negotiating power. In commerce, you don't get what you deserve; You get what you negotiate for.
deleted 11y ago
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stephengillie 11y ago
It embarrasses me that less physical effort grants me a more valuable reward. This probably just reflects my laborer upbringing. I put together a few lines today that automates a 5-minute process. Across the scope of a few thousand servers, this obviates about 6.25 weeks of labor. It really does feel magical.
- xux 11y ago
  > It embarrasses me that less physical effort grants me a more valuable reward Why? Just because you work hard doesn't mean you deserve more
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Just because you work hard doesn't mean you deserve more Its a major element of the ideology associated with the Protestant work ethic, which has an important role in American culture -- and ties intimately into the way large parts of the more successful population can dismiss the less successful as being so as a result of choice and moral failing -- that hard work both does, in fact, and should, in moral ideal, result in material success. Even lots of people who intellectually reject the position are have been to some degree socialized in it and feel some dissonance when contrary facts are particularly palpable.
  - superuser2 11y ago
    "If you work harder you will be more successful" is the fundamental axiom of American conservatism. Of course I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason to oppose a social safety net is "those people are poor because they aren't working hard enough." This requires a belief that hard(er) work is and should be rewarded better. I'd say your claim is nonobvious. That the world is fundamentally fair, and that hard work is the most important aspect of virtue, are deep ideas in American culture and very much tied up with the American Dream (TM). Contemporary liberals typically challenge the "world is fundamentally fair" part, appealing to structural *-ism that makes this untrue for people other than white men born to financially secure parents. Few (economists, maybe) would argue that how hard you work does not influence how much you deserve.
lobe 11y ago
I definitely had the eureka moment when I was younger. When I was in high school I worked with my sister to sell t-shirts that we designed online. The shirts were designed in photoshop, designs given to our supplier who printed them on demand to ship directly to our customers. Shirts were listed on eBay, payment made through paypal or direct deposit, and all communication with customers and suppliers was through email. At no point did we touch the product or even have a phone call with anyone. After a couple of months we took out our first profit, which I think I spent some of it on an ipod classic. I was 14, and through clicking buttons and moving my mouse I now had an ipod in my hands that was all mine. That was magic.
WalterBright 11y ago
That's because it's not how hard you work, it's how effectively you work. Writing software has a lot of leverage.

mentat 11y ago

The product of your work does more than 3x what you could do by yourself though, that's why it's valued more / differently. A similar argument would be made for effective organizers and the force multiplication of coordinated work.

eonw 11y ago
likewise, almost anyone can chop wood or swing a hammer to break rocks.... no just anyone can write high quality code.
- WalterBright 11y ago
  A power saw can do the work of a thousand men chopping wood - making the designer/builder of such a machine worth more compensation than the chopper.
afarrell 11y ago
Also programming skill is rare compared to the opportunity to apply it and this gives us negotiating power. In commerce, you don't get what you deserve; You get what you negotiate for.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

stephengillie 11y ago

It embarrasses me that less physical effort grants me a more valuable reward. This probably just reflects my laborer upbringing. I put together a few lines today that automates a 5-minute process. Across the scope of a few thousand servers, this obviates about 6.25 weeks of labor. It really does feel magical.

xux 11y ago
> It embarrasses me that less physical effort grants me a more valuable reward Why? Just because you work hard doesn't mean you deserve more
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > Just because you work hard doesn't mean you deserve more Its a major element of the ideology associated with the Protestant work ethic, which has an important role in American culture -- and ties intimately into the way large parts of the more successful population can dismiss the less successful as being so as a result of choice and moral failing -- that hard work both does, in fact, and should, in moral ideal, result in material success. Even lots of people who intellectually reject the position are have been to some degree socialized in it and feel some dissonance when contrary facts are particularly palpable.
- superuser2 11y ago
  "If you work harder you will be more successful" is the fundamental axiom of American conservatism. Of course I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason to oppose a social safety net is "those people are poor because they aren't working hard enough." This requires a belief that hard(er) work is and should be rewarded better. I'd say your claim is nonobvious. That the world is fundamentally fair, and that hard work is the most important aspect of virtue, are deep ideas in American culture and very much tied up with the American Dream (TM). Contemporary liberals typically challenge the "world is fundamentally fair" part, appealing to structural *-ism that makes this untrue for people other than white men born to financially secure parents. Few (economists, maybe) would argue that how hard you work does not influence how much you deserve.

lobe 11y ago

I definitely had the eureka moment when I was younger. When I was in high school I worked with my sister to sell t-shirts that we designed online. The shirts were designed in photoshop, designs given to our supplier who printed them on demand to ship directly to our customers. Shirts were listed on eBay, payment made through paypal or direct deposit, and all communication with customers and suppliers was through email. At no point did we touch the product or even have a phone call with anyone. After a couple of months we took out our first profit, which I think I spent some of it on an ipod classic. I was 14, and through clicking buttons and moving my mouse I now had an ipod in my hands that was all mine. That was magic.

WalterBright 11y ago

That's because it's not how hard you work, it's how effectively you work. Writing software has a lot of leverage.