3 ms·

I don't know who has this happen to them more often, but I know a lot of stories about theft among male scientists as well. And think about the whole system of

I don't know who has this happen to them more often, but I know a lot of stories about theft among male scientists as well. And think about the whole system of PhD where students to the work and the supervisor gets the fame. Not convinced that this is not just a case of bad framing.

danso 11y ago
This is absolutely valid; the motives and incentives for intellectual theft cross demographic boundaries (sex, race, age, religion, etc). It's possible (if it were possible to accurately count what is essentially uncountable) that the number of such incidents of men stealing from women is not statistically out of line compared to the overall number of incidents, and the ratio of men-to-women in the field. That said, I think Allen insinuates and believes that the current gender dynamic makes it harder for affected women to push back (which of course is another unquantifiable thing),
- facepalm 11y ago
  Sure it's possible, but the problem is: we are all ready to believe it, in fact, downright jump on it. Because it fits into the general narrative (evil men, angelic women). I think it would be better to back such things up with research, rather than enforce stereotypes.
- facepalm 11y ago
  Addendum: if it's true that there are vastly more male scientists than female scientists, then it seems extremely likely that more work has been stolen from male scientists than from female scientists (odds per individual are of course unaffected). The same applies to promotions. For every story of a woman who was not promoted in IT, there are probably 20 untold stories of men who were not promoted in IT. Simply because much more men than women work in IT, and only few can be promoted. I just question the whole approach of arguing with anecdotes.
  - tajen 11y ago
    Concerning promotions, we could restore the truth by adjusting the mesurement: Let's measure the "mean time to get promoted", which is the right indicator of the equality of chances. Needless to say that, in my 10-years of experience as a programmer, I've seen an average of 3 years for females and 6 years for males.

danso 11y ago

This is absolutely valid; the motives and incentives for intellectual theft cross demographic boundaries (sex, race, age, religion, etc). It's possible (if it were possible to accurately count what is essentially uncountable) that the number of such incidents of men stealing from women is not statistically out of line compared to the overall number of incidents, and the ratio of men-to-women in the field. That said, I think Allen insinuates and believes that the current gender dynamic makes it harder for affected women to push back (which of course is another unquantifiable thing),

facepalm 11y ago
Sure it's possible, but the problem is: we are all ready to believe it, in fact, downright jump on it. Because it fits into the general narrative (evil men, angelic women). I think it would be better to back such things up with research, rather than enforce stereotypes.
facepalm 11y ago
Addendum: if it's true that there are vastly more male scientists than female scientists, then it seems extremely likely that more work has been stolen from male scientists than from female scientists (odds per individual are of course unaffected). The same applies to promotions. For every story of a woman who was not promoted in IT, there are probably 20 untold stories of men who were not promoted in IT. Simply because much more men than women work in IT, and only few can be promoted. I just question the whole approach of arguing with anecdotes.
- tajen 11y ago
  Concerning promotions, we could restore the truth by adjusting the mesurement: Let's measure the "mean time to get promoted", which is the right indicator of the equality of chances. Needless to say that, in my 10-years of experience as a programmer, I've seen an average of 3 years for females and 6 years for males.