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The bankers are the ones I think it would work for. They understand risk analysis and it's all slow, reasoned, crime. Not like crimes of passion.
by fineman 11y ago
The bankers are the ones I think it would work for. They understand risk analysis and it's all slow, reasoned, crime. Not like crimes of passion.
- _delirium 11y agoIs locking people in cages really necessary to stop bank misbehavior though? I would prefer first trying things like: 1) closer oversight; 2) fines restructured as a percentage of wealth so that they actually deter even very wealthy people; 3) kicking people out of the sector (e.g. bans from working in finance). Cages seem like a really blunt and rather barbaric instrument to use for improving society.
- rjsw 11y agoSome punishments are designed to send a message [1], maybe bankers would change their behaviour too. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Byng https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Byng
- nitrogen 11y agoMaking an example out of someone to send a message to others is completely unjust for the person who is made an example.
- fineman 11y agoDid they intend the crime? And their only defense is "The other guy was doing it too"? Oh well. As long as we prosecute as many people in their position as possible it doesn't seem to be a problem if we miss some. It's only selective when we choose who to ignore. Something like Aaron Schwartz where it wasn't a crime until someone who made the DA look like an idiot does it... Then it's clearly crossed the line.
- eru 11y ago> 2) fines restructured as a percentage of wealth so that they actually deter even very wealthy people Or even just the possibility of piercing the veil of incorporation, ie let the employees take some risk on the downside, too.
- nate_meurer 11y agoCages ought to be reserved for people who cannot be trusted to live amongst the populace -- violent criminals, habitual negligents (e.g., drunk drivers), thieves and con artists. If a bankster's danger to society can be remedied by banning him from his chosen profession, and justice served with a fine, it does seem like we could spare the cage.
- fineman 11y agoThe thing is, the banker (or other white-collar criminal) is the only one who planned it. They, more than the thugs imho, should be locked away because they're predators not just opportunists. And maybe we could spare the cage... But after we get around to the mistakenly (cough) convicted black people, and poor people, and those with mental illness, etc, then we can worry about the poor-banker in his comfortable minimum-security cell.
- nate_meurer 11y agoWell that's a fine point you make -- predators vs. opportunists. And I need to be reminded that wealthy white-collar criminals don't often experience the same kind prison as does the common man.
- rtpg 11y agoSure, but in that case just take their money away. At least then the punishment is in the same unit of measurement as the crime, and the risk can be compared better. Locking someone in a cell seems excessive (and excessively costly).
- fineman 11y ago> At least then the punishment is in the same unit of measurement as the crime No, not really. The crime inflicted homelessness, multiple jobs to feed your family, depression, broken marriages, suicide, etc. If there's no downside to attempted theft, like they just lose the ill-gotten money and get to go home to a warm bed, we might as well be incentivizing it. Besides, Jail isn't inherently costly - American for-profit prisons are intentionally wasteful. We don't need to spend a million-dollars a year per prisoner.
- bottled_poe 11y agoRegardless of whether you respect bankers or not - putting a rational human being in a cage is a fucking disgrace.
- fineman 11y agoNo, not really. It's putting the mentally ill and irrational ones in a cage that's a fucking disgrace. The bankers know what they do.
- nitrogen 11y agoThe bankers know what they do. Only if you believe in dualistic free will.
- fineman 11y agoAs I said elsewhere, when these comments come out in any general prison thread I support them. When they only come out when bankers are mentioned, I do not. And, philosophical questions of free will tend to be a waste of time to consider. If you don't have free will then we also didn't really "choose" to execute you... Next.
- cactusface 11y agoPutting a rational human being in a cage makes them mentally ill and irrational. Well, at least we know this for sure about solitary.