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The people who are accusing sexism are causing more damage to tech, and the political correct censorship will likely causing bottled-up emotions which will stir

by anon3_ 11y ago

The people who are accusing sexism are causing more damage to tech, and the political correct censorship will likely causing bottled-up emotions which will stir up sexists biases. Regarding your #3 point, that is key. Sexism definitely exists in other areas. But your wife was a qualified helicopter pilot. The most vocal accusers or sexism in tech more often than not have scant to no qualifications or flimsy to no proof of sexism.

duncan_bayne 11y ago
"The most vocal accusers or sexism in tech more often than not have scant to no qualifications or flimsy to no proof of sexism." Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please - that fact has no bearing on whether or not there is sexism in the tech. industry. E.g. I can call out the sexism my wife encountered despite having no qualifications or experience in her industry.
- anon3_ 11y ago
  > Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please Adria Richards, (not a programmer, claims to encourage "diversity", yet her claim to fame is getting offended over a joke). Anita Sarkeesian (on the record, she says video games are stupid and hasn't even played the games she critcizes). Shanley Kane. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racist-and-im-mentally-ill-shanley-kane-in-shocking-social-media-meltdown/ http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racis... It's not just that vocal accusers have no evidence of sexism, they're flat out vitriolic and command armies of trolls that swarm upon anyone who criticizes them.
  - duncan_bayne 11y ago
    Yes, there are some bad apples doing the accusing (pretty sure that Sarkeesian shouldn't be in that list). That was one of my points: for those people, it's a matter of power, and unrelated to any actual sexism. That doesn't alter the fact that a) there is tech. industry sexism, b) your examples scarcely prove your assertion that the majority of loud accusers are bad apples, c) non-experts in a field can still call out problems in that field.
    - anon3_ 11y ago
      What do you think about Ellen Pao? Julie Ann Horvath? What are some examples of tech industry sexism, as you see it?
      - duncan_bayne 11y ago
        Pao? http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletcher-ellen-pao http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletch... ... basically, she was suing for pretty much the same amount that her husband was being sued for. Coincidence? I think not, especially other revelations about her character that were made during the trial. Horvath? That whole situation was seven shades of wrong; I don't think it proved anything about institutional sexism at GitHub, but it certainly demonstrated how poor (or at least, how inconsistent) their HR practices were. Her story would set (good) HR managers heads on fire, and I'm still surprised she didn't sue them over it all. (I do disagree with her opinion on the meritocracy issue, though: meritorcracy is something all organisations should strive for, and a term of which we should be proud). Examples of tech industry sexism? How about this for starters: http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-sexism-post/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-... There are many, many examples of behaviour like this in the tech industry (and others).

by anon3_ 11y ago

duncan_bayne 11y ago

"The most vocal accusers or sexism in tech more often than not have scant to no qualifications or flimsy to no proof of sexism." Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please - that fact has no bearing on whether or not there is sexism in the tech. industry. E.g. I can call out the sexism my wife encountered despite having no qualifications or experience in her industry.

anon3_ 11y ago
> Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please Adria Richards, (not a programmer, claims to encourage "diversity", yet her claim to fame is getting offended over a joke). Anita Sarkeesian (on the record, she says video games are stupid and hasn't even played the games she critcizes). Shanley Kane. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racist-and-im-mentally-ill-shanley-kane-in-shocking-social-media-meltdown/ http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racis... It's not just that vocal accusers have no evidence of sexism, they're flat out vitriolic and command armies of trolls that swarm upon anyone who criticizes them.
- duncan_bayne 11y ago
  Yes, there are some bad apples doing the accusing (pretty sure that Sarkeesian shouldn't be in that list). That was one of my points: for those people, it's a matter of power, and unrelated to any actual sexism. That doesn't alter the fact that a) there is tech. industry sexism, b) your examples scarcely prove your assertion that the majority of loud accusers are bad apples, c) non-experts in a field can still call out problems in that field.
  - anon3_ 11y ago
    What do you think about Ellen Pao? Julie Ann Horvath? What are some examples of tech industry sexism, as you see it?
    - duncan_bayne 11y ago
      Pao? http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletcher-ellen-pao http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletch... ... basically, she was suing for pretty much the same amount that her husband was being sued for. Coincidence? I think not, especially other revelations about her character that were made during the trial. Horvath? That whole situation was seven shades of wrong; I don't think it proved anything about institutional sexism at GitHub, but it certainly demonstrated how poor (or at least, how inconsistent) their HR practices were. Her story would set (good) HR managers heads on fire, and I'm still surprised she didn't sue them over it all. (I do disagree with her opinion on the meritocracy issue, though: meritorcracy is something all organisations should strive for, and a term of which we should be proud). Examples of tech industry sexism? How about this for starters: http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-sexism-post/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-... There are many, many examples of behaviour like this in the tech industry (and others).