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Not posting anonymously because - I think - my opinions on this matter are well known by those who know me. 1) There is a sexism problem in tech. I have seen

Not posting anonymously because - I think - my opinions on this matter are well known by those who know me. 1) There is a sexism problem in tech. I have seen it first hand. 2) It's not present in all companies all of the time, and gender balance is not evidence, in and of itself, of the problem existing in a given workforce. 3) Sexism is not unique to the tech industry. My wife is a qualified helicopter pilot, and was told (in 2008!) "sure, send in your resume, but I should warn you that we run an unofficial no-chicks policy" by one outfit she applied to as a junior pilot. 4) The issues about which you're complaining - bullying, harassment, restraint of trade etc. - are not in any way related to either sexism or the tech industry. It's about power. Groups who have in the past been marginalised and oppressed are now becoming powerful, and are abusing that power in exactly the same way as their erstwhile oppressors. It's seen as okay by them and their supporters, because it's targeted at 'bad people'. I used to work for a University nearly two decades ago, and saw the same pattern play out there in fields unrelated to tech. It's just taken a while to get rolling in our industry. As Rand once said: "every infringement of human rights has begun with the suppression of a given right's least attractive practitioners". Mencius Moldbug is the example who springs to mind here.

anon3_ 11y ago
The people who are accusing sexism are causing more damage to tech, and the political correct censorship will likely causing bottled-up emotions which will stir up sexists biases. Regarding your #3 point, that is key. Sexism definitely exists in other areas. But your wife was a qualified helicopter pilot. The most vocal accusers or sexism in tech more often than not have scant to no qualifications or flimsy to no proof of sexism.
- duncan_bayne 11y ago
  "The most vocal accusers or sexism in tech more often than not have scant to no qualifications or flimsy to no proof of sexism." Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please - that fact has no bearing on whether or not there is sexism in the tech. industry. E.g. I can call out the sexism my wife encountered despite having no qualifications or experience in her industry.
  - anon3_ 11y ago
    > Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please Adria Richards, (not a programmer, claims to encourage "diversity", yet her claim to fame is getting offended over a joke). Anita Sarkeesian (on the record, she says video games are stupid and hasn't even played the games she critcizes). Shanley Kane. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racist-and-im-mentally-ill-shanley-kane-in-shocking-social-media-meltdown/ http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racis... It's not just that vocal accusers have no evidence of sexism, they're flat out vitriolic and command armies of trolls that swarm upon anyone who criticizes them.
    - duncan_bayne 11y ago
      Yes, there are some bad apples doing the accusing (pretty sure that Sarkeesian shouldn't be in that list). That was one of my points: for those people, it's a matter of power, and unrelated to any actual sexism. That doesn't alter the fact that a) there is tech. industry sexism, b) your examples scarcely prove your assertion that the majority of loud accusers are bad apples, c) non-experts in a field can still call out problems in that field.
      - anon3_ 11y ago
        What do you think about Ellen Pao? Julie Ann Horvath? What are some examples of tech industry sexism, as you see it?
        duncan_bayne 11y ago
        Pao? http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletcher-ellen-pao http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletch... ... basically, she was suing for pretty much the same amount that her husband was being sued for. Coincidence? I think not, especially other revelations about her character that were made during the trial. Horvath? That whole situation was seven shades of wrong; I don't think it proved anything about institutional sexism at GitHub, but it certainly demonstrated how poor (or at least, how inconsistent) their HR practices were. Her story would set (good) HR managers heads on fire, and I'm still surprised she didn't sue them over it all. (I do disagree with her opinion on the meritocracy issue, though: meritorcracy is something all organisations should strive for, and a term of which we should be proud). Examples of tech industry sexism? How about this for starters: http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-sexism-post/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-... There are many, many examples of behaviour like this in the tech industry (and others).

anon3_ 11y ago

The people who are accusing sexism are causing more damage to tech, and the political correct censorship will likely causing bottled-up emotions which will stir up sexists biases. Regarding your #3 point, that is key. Sexism definitely exists in other areas. But your wife was a qualified helicopter pilot. The most vocal accusers or sexism in tech more often than not have scant to no qualifications or flimsy to no proof of sexism.

duncan_bayne 11y ago
"The most vocal accusers or sexism in tech more often than not have scant to no qualifications or flimsy to no proof of sexism." Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please - that fact has no bearing on whether or not there is sexism in the tech. industry. E.g. I can call out the sexism my wife encountered despite having no qualifications or experience in her industry.
- anon3_ 11y ago
  > Even if true - and I'd like to see some evidence, please Adria Richards, (not a programmer, claims to encourage "diversity", yet her claim to fame is getting offended over a joke). Anita Sarkeesian (on the record, she says video games are stupid and hasn't even played the games she critcizes). Shanley Kane. http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racist-and-im-mentally-ill-shanley-kane-in-shocking-social-media-meltdown/ http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/01/21/yes-i-was-a-racis... It's not just that vocal accusers have no evidence of sexism, they're flat out vitriolic and command armies of trolls that swarm upon anyone who criticizes them.
  - duncan_bayne 11y ago
    Yes, there are some bad apples doing the accusing (pretty sure that Sarkeesian shouldn't be in that list). That was one of my points: for those people, it's a matter of power, and unrelated to any actual sexism. That doesn't alter the fact that a) there is tech. industry sexism, b) your examples scarcely prove your assertion that the majority of loud accusers are bad apples, c) non-experts in a field can still call out problems in that field.
    - anon3_ 11y ago
      What do you think about Ellen Pao? Julie Ann Horvath? What are some examples of tech industry sexism, as you see it?
      - duncan_bayne 11y ago
        Pao? http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletcher-ellen-pao http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletch... ... basically, she was suing for pretty much the same amount that her husband was being sued for. Coincidence? I think not, especially other revelations about her character that were made during the trial. Horvath? That whole situation was seven shades of wrong; I don't think it proved anything about institutional sexism at GitHub, but it certainly demonstrated how poor (or at least, how inconsistent) their HR practices were. Her story would set (good) HR managers heads on fire, and I'm still surprised she didn't sue them over it all. (I do disagree with her opinion on the meritocracy issue, though: meritorcracy is something all organisations should strive for, and a term of which we should be proud). Examples of tech industry sexism? How about this for starters: http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-sexism-post/ http://www.dailydot.com/news/cryptoparty-founder-asher-wolf-... There are many, many examples of behaviour like this in the tech industry (and others).