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Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

301 points by jhartmann 11y ago

usaphp 11y ago
I don't know every time I skip a meal for 8+ hours since waking up in the morning I get a terrible headache and become mad at everybody around me, not sure if it's just me or everybody who fastens have those symptoms. But when I eat breakfast and lunch I can go on without food till 4-5 am with no issues at all
- krmmalik 11y ago
  Have you considered magnesium and vitamin D supplements? That resolved those symptoms for me.
- akamaka 11y ago
  I'm sure it's different for everyone, because I sometimes just don't feel like eating much for a couple days. It makes sense to me, because some of our ancestors might have had only an itermittant supply of food, while others might have been accustomed to eating several times a day.
rdl 11y ago
I'm curious if the health benefits of IF or moderate IF overwhelm the health detriment of appetite suppressant medications (e.g. amphetamines), in moderate doses.
subpixel 11y ago
If you're interested, I highly recommend giving this a watch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-20122013-3-eat-fast-and-live-longer http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-201220... (If you're not in the UK, connecting via VPN works). Twice a week fasting, where I eat a bowl of cereal and a piece of fruit and nothing else but coffee all day, has been working really well for me. Surprisingly, I've found I'm totally able to run a few miles on my fasting days to boot.
guard-of-terra 11y ago
Can we have this in a pill? Science telling me to go fasting is same as if science told me to go walk instead of providing an automobile. I know that it sounds unpositive but telling people how to live didn't work for the last 2000 years, probably more. They fail at this always. But giving them tools help a lot.
jhartmann 11y ago
The paper in Cell Metabolism is here: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)0...
- zdw 11y ago
  Contents of the diet are on this PDF: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(1... The human fasting mimicking diet (FMD) program is a plant-based diet program designed to attain fasting-like effects while providing micronutrient nourishment (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and minimize the burden of fasting. It comprises proprietary vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, chamomile flower tea, and a vegetable supplement formula tablet. The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies ~1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbohydrate).
  - deleted 11y ago
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  - bradleyjg 11y ago
    It doesn't seem like the study can be replicated with that little information, and the word "proprietary" is especially worrying on that account.
    - ivanhoe 11y ago
      They'll brand it and sell it, it's obviously the plan. Now question is if this is really any better than all the other intermittent fasting technics, since they all describe pretty much the same benefits, but it's (for now) hard to quantify and compare the results and the risks...
      - gwern 11y ago
        And they didn't include a direct comparison to more common IF: the control in the mice and human was both one's normal diet. So the exact causal claim established a little ambiguous.
revelation 11y ago
What was the research plan here? We want to investigate a diets impact on aging? What are the negative results then? These are two extraordinarily complex, intertwined topics that to come up with a hypothesis like this on the limited evidence ends up appearing to be just a random search for correlations, terminating once you find one that has the right p value.
- wlesieutre 11y ago
  If you investigate enough diets: https://xkcd.com/882/ https://xkcd.com/882/
- jhartmann 11y ago
  This builds on some earlier work where the Authors investigated Intermittent water fasting on Chemotherapy recipients and found that their immune systems regenerated better. This paper appears to have found a way to mimic some of the effects on their previous protocol with something that is safer to do. The earlier paper is here: http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/abstract/S1934-5909(14)00151-9 http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/abstract/S1934-5909(14)00...
- vidarh 11y ago
  There's pre-existing research on the effects of calorie restriction that have appeared to show effects indicating that they might be beneficial with respect to longevity, so it's very unlikely to have been a hypothesis they've just pulled out of thin air.
marvel_boy 11y ago
It worked (supposedly) in mice, not in humans. The title is misleading.
- jhartmann 11y ago
  No, they did a super small random pilot study. Here is the section from the actual paper on the results: In the FMD subjects, fasting blood glucose levels were reduced by 11.3% ± 2.3% (p < 0.001; FMD) and remained 5.9% ± 2.1% lower than baseline levels after resuming the normal diet following the third FMD cycle (p < 0.05; Figure 6B). Serum ketone bodies increased 3.7-fold at the end of the FMD regimen (p < 0.001) and returned to baseline levels following normal food intake (Figure 6C). Circulating IGF-1 was reduced by 24% by the end of the FMD period (p < 0.001) and remained 15% lower after resuming the normal diet (p < 0.01; Figure 6D). IGFBP-1 was increased 1.5-fold at the end of the FMD regimen (p < 0.01) and returned to baseline levels following normal food intake (Figure 6E). These results indicate that the FMD group was highly compliant and generally did not consume foods not included in the FMD box provided to them.
- __z 11y ago
  Did you read the whole thing? "In a pilot human trial, three cycles of a similar diet given to 19 subjects once a month for five days decreased risk factors and biomarkers for aging, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and cancer with no major adverse side effects, according to Longo."
  - thomasrossi 11y ago
    You don't eat, so you don't stuff your cardiovascular system with fat, nothing new there (and if your problem is not genetic diabetes, then you are good to go against diabetes that way too). Also for the aging, digestion is a pretty intensive biochemical procedure, I am sure your tissues may like some rest from time to time, nothing new there either. What is not mentioned is that other biochemical pathways are triggered by starving, for instance, you digest your own muscular tissues. This may or may not be what you want. So basically you are avoiding some biochemical machinery just to trigger another.. balacing it looks sort of difficult and for sure picking 5 days in a month looks pretty random, I will wait the try different timings at least;P
tosseraccount 11y ago
Haven't they known this for a long time? http://jn.nutrition.org/content/31/3/363.full.pdf http://jn.nutrition.org/content/31/3/363.full.pdf APPARENT PROLONGATION OF THE LIFE SPAN OF RATS BY INTERMITTENT FASTING by ANTON J. CARLSON AND FREDERICK HOELZEL Department of Physiology, University of Chicago, Chkago (Received for publication October 4, 1945 )
- jerf 11y ago
  HN has carried news about fasting before, but this the first science article I've seen about a diet, i.e., food being eaten, that appears to mimic the benefits of fasting without actually fasting. That's a way easier sell for people, and also a way easier sell for doctors prescribing this to people who may be on the edge for other reasons and unable to sustain a true no-food fast. (As long as I'm commenting, I complained a couple of days ago about how I'm very strongly willing to bet now that the "standard" diet is really quite bad, but that I'm far weaker on what a good diet is. This is the sort of thing I mean... how useful is fasting? Can we simulate the results without having to pay as many costs? How does fasting integrate with a low-carb/low-glycemic-index/whatever-else-you-like diet? What's the biochemical mechanisms at play here? Can we use those mechanisms any other way? There's so, so much fantastic and useful work to be done here, and instead we spent nearly 50 years re-running the same damned studies over and over again, wrong. ("Are eggs good for you? Are eggs good for you? Are eggs good for you? Are eggs good for you? I propose to study the question of whether eggs are good for you, give me half a million dollars...."))
  - erkkie 11y ago
    Eggs are good your you, eat them (laterish) in the morning with not too much carbs and possibly reap the benefits of fasting as well :)
- leereeves 11y ago
  Yes, this paper is building on that work; developing a diet with effects similar to intermittent/prolonged fasting.
- __z 11y ago
kazinator 11y ago
The connection between longevity and caloric intake has been studied in mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3958810 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3958810 [1986!] "Mice from groups 3-6 [restricted intake] exhibited mean and maximal life spans 35-65% greater than for group 1 and 20-40% greater than for group 2. Mice from group 6 [most restricted intake] lived longest of all." Brackets mine.
- Cyphus 11y ago
  Indeed, but this study controlled for caloric intake. "The total monthly calorie intake was the same for the FMD and control diet groups, indicating that the effects were not the result of an overall dietary restriction."
- reasonattlm 11y ago
  There are studies showing benefits to isocaloric intermittent fasting in rodents - enough to make it reasonable to think that some mechanisms are due to timing of feeding rather than just plain old calorie restriction in a different guise. I'm having trouble digging one up in a short enough time frame at the moment, though. It is proving hard to find the specific paper I'm recalling in amongst all the non-isocaloric intermittent fasting studies.
- Retric 11y ago
  Oddly enough with people being slightly overweight seems to increase lifespan at least when looking at actuary tables. There are a lot of possible factors that may be involved. From changing behaviors, lifestyle, lack of disease, larger buffer before weight loss becomes an issue etc. Edit: It should be noted that this still a fairly low BMI compared to most middle aged Americans.
  - carbocation 11y ago
    Interestingly, the same does not hold for overweight people who are diabetic: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1304501 http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1304501
brador 11y ago
What was the diet?
- hathawsh 11y ago
  It looks like the diet was ProLon: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon
  - willlma 11y ago
    And what's in it? I can't find a specific diet plan anywhere.
hathawsh 11y ago
The authors disclosed they have equity in a company called L-Nutra, which intends to sell diet food packs: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon Nothing for sale yet, but hopefully the price will be competitive with do-it-yourselfers. I am cautiously optimistic about this direction.
- Avshalom 11y ago
  it is going to be very hard to be price-competitive with "not eating"
  - primroot 11y ago
    just sell the test kits for all the supposed markers of longevity.
  - hoodoof 11y ago
    Perhaps. I remember when bottled water became a big thing. I thought "What the? This is stupid, choice between free at the tap or buying a bottle of water? This will never work."
    - fineline 11y ago
      If you have kids check out The Lorax movie where the two marketing dudes are pitching the ad for bottled air.
- jdnier 11y ago
  As to what it is: "Prolon™1 and 2 are proprietary, solely plant-based products, comprised of vegetable medleys, broths, energy drinks, teas, and nutrition bars." So, it's a limited, plant-based diet you follow at intervals. I wonder if adopting a full-time plant-based diet would have similar effects, but without the caloric restriction.
- Splendor 11y ago
  That's interesting. Thanks for sharing.
toufique 11y ago
Appropriate article for the first day of Ramadan.
ohitsdom 11y ago
RadioLab did an interesting story on how fasting (or living through famines) impacts your children and grandchildren with significant health boosts. http://www.radiolab.org/story/251885-you-are-what-your-grandpa-eats/ http://www.radiolab.org/story/251885-you-are-what-your-grand...
reasonattlm 11y ago
There is much more background info on Longo and his work on intermittent fasting if you go digging. More interesting than this particular piece, which is very short on context and science relating to the study of intermittent fasting, calorie restriction as adjuvant cancer therapy, immune regeneration via fasting, etc. http://gero.usc.edu/faculty/longo/ http://gero.usc.edu/faculty/longo/ http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-06/uosc-fts060214.php http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-06/uosc-fts06021... http://michelsonmedical.org/2014/12/26/igf-1-fasting-discussion-valter-longo/ http://michelsonmedical.org/2014/12/26/igf-1-fasting-discuss... http://news.usc.edu/58074/wanted-a-recipe-for-longevity/ http://news.usc.edu/58074/wanted-a-recipe-for-longevity/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498742 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498742 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498743 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498743 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25549805 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25549805
- mark-r 11y ago
  Also note that he's the founder of a company that produces the diet under test: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/about/team http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/about/team And he's applied for patents on the technique, e.g. http://patents.justia.com/patent/20150004280 http://patents.justia.com/patent/20150004280
- tosseraccount 11y ago
  Can you tl;dr , please. Does adjuvant therapy in the form of fasting affect survival in clinical trials in cancer patients? Is this proven and accepted?
  - reasonattlm 11y ago
    Sure. It's a thing. See this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ "Proven" is of course a continuum rather than a binary state. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that calorie restriction and fasting are beneficial across the board, and in cancer, and specifically as adjuvants. Getting that past the FDA as an official approved treatment is still ongoing, I believe. Most likely because "eating less" is not attached to "we can make a huge amount of money charging for this" so who is going to pay for all the studies and data that the FDA wants? One of Longo's innovations is to have found a way to make that happen within the system, I think. More: https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=cancer%20%22dietary%20restriction%22 https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=cancer%20%22dietary%20restri...
stevebmark 11y ago
Ketosis also "mimics fastings", the main metabolic difference being nutritional ketosis is 0.5 - 3 mmol/L, while fasting is 3 - 5 mmol/L (betahydroxybuterate in the serum). The benefits of ketosis may also add longevity, possibly with similar mechanisms to fasting. It's likely intermittent fasting put the subjects of the study into mild ketosis. Bottom line: Ketosis may have benefits similar to fasting in terms of aging, but without having to fast :)
- IndianAstronaut 11y ago
  >Ketosis also "mimics fastings", Can you please provide a source on this?
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  - Balgair 11y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ketosis https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ketosis "During the usual overnight fast, the body's metabolism naturally switches into ketosis, and will switch back to glycolysis after a carbohydrate-rich meal. Longer-term ketosis may result from fasting or staying on a low-carbohydrate diet, and deliberately induced ketosis serves as a medical intervention for intractable epilepsy.[6] In glycolysis, higher levels of insulin promote storage of body fat and block release of fat from adipose tissues, while in ketosis, fat reserves are readily released and consumed.[5][7] For this reason, ketosis is sometimes referred to as the body's "fat burning" mode"
- exelius 11y ago
  Can confirm, keto diets burn weight like a motherfucker. They're also reasonably easy to maintain, since it's pretty easy to order a cheeseburger without a bun and eat it with a knife and fork. Also, bacon and avocado are a delicious combination, and keto says they are ok. I dropped 40 lbs in under 6 months on a keto diet, and built muscle while doing it. But I had to stop the keto diet because it makes me stupid when I'm on it. I'm not talking the "keto fog" that you experience for a few days when your body is adjusting; operating in extended ketosis for me correlated with a marked decline in mental capacity. I went from being a rockstar knowledge worker to someone who couldn't do simple arithmetic. And my mental faculties would return within an hour if I ate a bagel. Ketones (what your body burns for energy when there are no sugars available) don't penetrate to the brain, so your body produces sugars from protein through gluconeogenesis, but it wasn't really enough to keep me functioning at 100%. Also, you don't want to be frequently transitioning in/out of ketosis; it gives you horrible headaches.
Rainymood 11y ago
I currently intermittent fast by skipping breakfast + lunch, partially because I'm lazy, partially because it allows me to easily eat 'all my calories' in the end of the day. I really like this as it provides a 'buffer' for unexpected food, such as random cake, or random lunches with colleagues etc. Has anyone here actually ever TRIED fasting a full 24h day? I have. I HATED it. Well, the fasting itself wasn't that bad, however, the next day my body went FULL berserk mode and I literally couldn't stop myself from eating. It was really weird and I never had such strong biological urges. That's when I decided I'd just stick to fasting until 5 pm when I eat diner.
- teach 11y ago
  Just for the record, skipping breakfast + lunch has nothing whatsoever to do with fasting. It's not even remotely similar in terms of how your body reacts to it. And as others have commented yes there are many of us who have fasted for days at a time for religious reasons.
  - greensoap 11y ago
    He said intermittent fasting. IF is basically what he described. 16 hours of no eating with an 8 hour window where you eat. I think some people take it farther--20 hours of fasting (water permitted) followed by caloric intake for four hours.
    - __z 11y ago
      IF includes a lot of different eating schedules - Eating for 5 days a week and fasting for 2 is a common practice too. When I did IF I fasted every 4 days.
  - __z 11y ago
    Fasting means abstaining from food for a period of time. Breakfast is called breakfast because you fast while you sleep and break the fast with breakfast so break-fast. Sure a 24 hr fast isn't a multi day fast but that doesn't mean it isn't a fast. 24 hr fasts are a commom intermittent fasting schedule. Religious practices that are called fasting last less than several days. When my doctor wants me in the fasted state (bloodwork/surgery) they say no food for 8-12 hrs. Saying short fasts have "nothing to do with fasting" is totally untrue.
krmmalik 11y ago
Appropriate article since I just completed a fast of 19hrs. No water and no food. Muslims do this every year. Last year, on average our fast was just over 18hrs. We fast each day from sunrise to sunset for 30days. Of course, we as a group of people have been doing it for over a thousand years. Cant say we started it due to science, but cant say we noticed the lack of aging either. ;)
- Avshalom 11y ago
  I have never met a Muslim that didn't put on 5 kilos during ramadan from ridiculous iftars and judicious day light napping. I suspect that may cancel out any benefit fasting might have.
  - krmmalik 11y ago
    Hehe. Yes that does happen a lot. Usually with people that fast more due to societal pressure or for cultural reasons rather than for religious reasons. To be honest fasting never was or is for health reasons and though it may seem that way it's not just about food. It's about abstaining from as many evils/ills as possible; not backbiting, no wasting time on trivial things, not being lazy, not being arrogant or egotistical. Etc etc. Call it a personality detox if you will. Unfortunately for outside observers that interact with casual fasters, the discussion tends to revolve around the abstinence from food only.
  - bmajz 11y ago
    Nice to make your e-acquaintance. Counter-example: Fasted the last couple of years in a -20% calorie deficit. Did nap during the day, but then worked out right before iftar (dinner). It's not an uncommon regimen. Just like anything else with a n of 500M (+/- 200M depending on number of adults and sick/elderly), it's hard to make a generalization. Personally though, it went fine in terms of productivity and energy. Trying to work out without that nap was pretty brutal but fasts are long enough to fit it in after work.
    - Avshalom 11y ago
      Hi! I say that crack about ramadan with all the affection in the world, I really do. I'm from a long line of catholics who give up sobriety for lent. It is my favorite human thing in the world that we can turn a fast holy month into a feast holiday. Though I am a bit more serious about the the gorging/extra sleep probably negating the benefits. I don't have the studies on hand but I think that most of the fasting studies usually assume a 'normal' diet and lifestyle during non fasting periods.
ziyadparekh 11y ago
What was the actual diet ?
- erkkie 11y ago
  From TFA (http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)0...): The development of the human diet took into account feasibility (e.g., high adherence to the dietary protocol) and therefore was designed to last 5 days every month and to provide between 34% and 54% of the normal caloric intake with a composition of at least 9%–10% proteins, 34%–47% carbohydrates, and 44%–56% fat.
ams6110 11y ago
Anecdotally, when I was a kid I had goldfish at one point. I noticed that if they were fed daily they didn't live very long. If they were fed once or twice a week they seemed to live forever.
- dogma1138 11y ago
  You are not supposed to feed the fish everyday, they died because you've poison their water, especially if this was in a small tank without an integral water filtration system. When you saturate the water with fish food (and also well fish poop) you pretty much give bacteria a free reign in the water which causes the water to be extremely anaerobic, so yep you've caused your fish to drown :)
- novaleaf 11y ago
  i too remember that, but for some kind of tropical almost-transparent freshwater fish. Their lifespan was supposed to be about 2 years, but we fed it once a week and it lived perhaps 7 years, until it jumped out of a bowl and suffocated while we were cleaning it's tank!
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- mikekchar 11y ago
  Gold fish have a typical life span of 20-30 years. However, they are actually very difficult fish to keep. Unless you replace the water very, very frequently (like every day or so), the recommended amount of water is 10 gallons (~40 liters) per fish! Most people put gold fish in ridiculously inappropriate bowls/tanks and think that they live for only a few months or a year. As someone else pointed out, the reason your fish lived longer when you fed them less is because you were reducing the amount of ammonia (from rotting food, or from fish waste) in the water.
voidlogic 11y ago
Previously it has been found that eating a ketogenic diet (<20g carbs/day for most, adq. protien, most cals from fat) mimics long term caloric restriction- And, at least to me, that sounds much more appealing that eating a severe calorie deficient... I lost 40 lbs on keto eating mostly (by volume) non-carby veggies and mostly (by calories) fat, along with 80-120g of protein per day. I'd really like to see their complex diet tested against a well formulated ketogenic diet.
- throwaway12309 11y ago
  ok, since this is posted here every freaking time there is an article about dieting in HN, let me stress this out: A Ketogenic diet (per the actual medical definition and not from fitness gurus) is not low carb, adequate protein and high fat. it is high fat, little to no carbs and low protein. From medical recommendations, calories from fat should be in the 85-90% range. Most of the articles you read about the benefits of ketogenic diet is the MEDICAL definition and not the fitness definition. Also, protein as a nutrient creates a similar insulin response as carbs. (nothing against keto diets, but they just seem to be the hip diet of the moment and annoys me when this keeps being stated)
  - voidlogic 11y ago
    >Also, protein as a nutrient creates a similar insulin response as carbs. If you look at graphs comparing them you will see protein is greatly blunted compared to carbs. The body being in ketosis is primarily medicated by the availability of liver glycogen, temporarily insulin spikes will at worst only pause ketosis. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, but (compared to felines) the human body can't do much of this and its usually only an issue if someone exceeds the standard recommendation of 0.8g of protein per lbs of lean body mass by x2 or more. Any diet that keeps your ketones high, ie keeps you in ketosis (assuming you are healthy) is a ketogenic diet by the scientific definition.
    - CuriouslyC 11y ago
      Actually, it depends on the protein. In particular, proteins rich in the amino acid Leucine (such as whey) are actually more insulinogenic calorie for calorie than white bread.
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eclipxe 11y ago
Another strong recommendation for Ketosis/keto diet. Only thing that I've been able to lose weight with long term.
vannevar 11y ago
Before you take any diet science story seriously, read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9714985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9714985 . It's sadly easy to generate 'significant' results and get them published if you want to.
spectrum1234 11y ago
Stuff like this way more obvious if you start to think about it. Is putting your body in a safe bubble to live optimal? Does nurture always beat nature? Of course not. Some amount of stress and physical challenge MUST be optimal (defined as reduce aging). What USC just did here is pick a solid guess in the range of fairly optimal. For the fasting parameter, (of many to choose from that cause stress or physical challenge) again with heuristics, we can first drill down to a sub-parameter of "being fairly hungry". Given the previous logic, this variable must be a component of slowing aging. Now if you had to guess from 1 day to 50 days or even 250 days, what would you guess is the optimal time of "being fairly hungry" to reduce aging? Mostly people would probably guess 2-10 days using the heuristics of "one day is just too little to have an effect" and "15+ days just cant be safe for you body." I'm surprised I hadn't heard about a study like this before. What I am not surprised by is that the optimal range is right in the middle of the optimal range from simple heuristics. The next heuristic you can tack on is timing between fasts. Using the same logic you will get very close to the timing between fasts USC is suggests.
Mitchhhs 11y ago
This has been known for a long time. The big question is whether this can actually work in humans. Rhesus Monkey's have shown some promising results, but the evidence is conflicting. I also wrote an article recently on this and other forms of lifespan extension: http://mitchkirby.com/2015/06/02/can-we-live-forever/ http://mitchkirby.com/2015/06/02/can-we-live-forever/
dzhiurgis 11y ago
Any chance this could be related to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laron_syndrome#Clinical_characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laron_syndrome#Clinical_charac... I remember hearing about this in some BBC Horizon show.
codexjourneys 11y ago
I've seen this claim several times in connection with different studies. I believe the hugest benefits apply to organisms that eat a restricted number of calories for all or most of their lifespan. And it's probably not only the number of calories, but also the quality of food that matters. Nutrient-dense, low-calorie diets could be worth a try, but how long could you stick with them? Giant page of research: http://qualitycounts.com/fpcalorie.html http://qualitycounts.com/fpcalorie.html
dschiptsov 11y ago
Each and every Eastern religion emphasised fasting - Hindu and Muslims and Buddhists know the benefits of it. Basically it means less burden, less load to the system (we are a system) and, as a by-product, the exercise of self-control, which is the key to personal success (delayed gratification and related concepts). Thinking about tribal eating habits, one could realize that there is no single "right" diet, but a pepper set of habits of moderate austerity in consumption and sticking to simple, unprocessed, traditional (evolved according with local food sources) dishes. To put it simply - conditioned by media overconsumption of processed junk food is the cause of suffering and a major contribution to ageing.
ommunist 11y ago
Just stick to porridge. And an apple a day keeps diet sellers away.
piyushpr134 11y ago
Hello from India, We know this since vedic times i.e. about 1750 to 500BC. Thank you!
erkkie 11y ago
The article in question http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)0...
tkyjonathan 11y ago
There have been studies that prove that reducing meat consumption is the main benefit of fasting for slowing down ageing and that fasting has many negative psychological effects. If you eat foods with low amounts of the amino acids methionine and leucine, you could significantly reduce age-related diseases and the risk for certain cancers. http://nutritionfacts.org/2015/06/11/exploiting-autophagy-to-live-longer/ http://nutritionfacts.org/2015/06/11/exploiting-autophagy-to...
fasteo 11y ago
On the mechanistic side of things, it seems that fasting, among other things, cause a mild mitochondrial uncoupling[1]. This uncoupling seems the main reason for the extended life span[2] If we give some credit to this hypothesis then yes, we will have a pill to slow down aging. It can go from a simple aspirin[3] (baby-aspirin anyone?), to the dangerous DNP in a low-dose, controlled release formulation[4], the novel cationic uncouplers [5], or the safe mitoBHT [6]. That said, you can just get a cold shower every morning[7] I am even researching this area to treat my primary mitochondrial disfuntion[8] [1] In simple terms, it means that the mitochondria generates less energy in the form of ATP and more energy as heat. [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21483800 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21483800 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC316328/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC316328/ [4] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1467-789X.2001.00043.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1467-789X.2001.... [5] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26071782 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26071782 [6] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267406/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267406/ [7] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18335051 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18335051 [8] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21275885 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21275885
snthpy 11y ago
A lot of the pathways that are mentioned here in the comments were discussed at the "Interventions to Slow Aging in Humans: Are We Ready?" conference in Italy in 2013 that Valter Longo from the article was also part of. They reviewed the different pathways and summarised them here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acel.12338/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acel.12338/full
ajarmst 11y ago
Sigh. The plural of anecdote is not data, rodent studies are useful but only relevant for designing proper human studies (not replacing them), and any aging "study" that works with a few dozen subjects over a few months is not science but marketing.
tim333 11y ago
I was annoyed the article didn't actually say what the diet was. Anyway from the Telegraph report of the same story: Day one of the diet comprises: 10 per cent protein, 56 per cent fat and 34 per cent carbohydrate, making 1,090 calories Days two to five: Nine per cent protein, 44 per cent fat and 47 per cent carbohydrate making 725 calories
rmoyer 11y ago
This study is definitely leading up to an FDA (they hope) approved, marketable diet. The actual study does give some hints at what the diet is comprised of, "to last 5 days every month and to provide between 34% and 54% of the normal caloric intake with a composition of at least 9%–10% proteins, 34%–47% carbohydrates, and 44%–56% fat". ... but reading further one finds this section: "Human Diet The human fasting mimicking diet (FMD) program is a plant-based diet program designed to attain fasting-like effects while providing micronutrient nourishment (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and minimize the burden of fasting. It comprises proprietary vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, chamomile flower tea, and a vegetable supplement formula tablet (Table S4). The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 4
- rmoyer 11y ago
  Forgot to add the link. Sorry. Here is the full text of their pseudo-scientific research: http://bit.ly/1MRWyhv http://bit.ly/1MRWyhv I used bitly.com to shorten this link, and it takes you to a page that begins to download the pdf file associated. For those worried about the link, here is the full version of the link: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cell.com%2Fcell-metabolism%2FpdfExtended%2FS1550-4131(15)00224-7&ei=tx2EVfycBoGjsAW89IOICw&usg=AFQjCNGFlPxmPfOvLteOC804KZ-cCfvb8g&bvm=bv.96042044,d.b2w http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...
rmoyer 11y ago
This study is definitely leading up to an FDA (they hope) approved, marketable diet. The actual study does give some hints at what the diet is comprised of, "to last 5 days every month and to provide between 34% and 54% of the normal caloric intake with a composition of at least 9%–10% proteins, 34%–47% carbohydrates, and 44%–56% fat". ... but reading further one finds this section: "Human Diet The human fasting mimicking diet (FMD) program is a plant-based diet program designed to attain fasting-like effects while providing micronutrient nourishment (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and minimize the burden of fasting. It comprises proprietary vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, chamomile flower tea, and a vegetable supplement formula tablet (Table S4). The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 4
rmoyer 11y ago
This study is definitely leading up to an FDA (they hope) approved, marketable diet. The actual study does give some hints at what the diet is comprised of, "to last 5 days every month and to provide between 34% and 54% of the normal caloric intake with a composition of at least 9%–10% proteins, 34%–47% carbohydrates, and 44%–56% fat". ... but reading further one finds this section: "Human Diet The human fasting mimicking diet (FMD) program is a plant-based diet program designed to attain fasting-like effects while providing micronutrient nourishment (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and minimize the burden of fasting. It comprises proprietary vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, chamomile flower tea, and a vegetable supplement formula tablet (Table S4). The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 4

301 points by jhartmann 11y ago

I don't know every time I skip a meal for 8+ hours since waking up in the morning I get a terrible headache and become mad at everybody around me, not sure if it's just me or everybody who fastens have those symptoms. But when I eat breakfast and lunch I can go on without food till 4-5 am with no issues at all

krmmalik 11y ago
Have you considered magnesium and vitamin D supplements? That resolved those symptoms for me.
akamaka 11y ago
I'm sure it's different for everyone, because I sometimes just don't feel like eating much for a couple days. It makes sense to me, because some of our ancestors might have had only an itermittant supply of food, while others might have been accustomed to eating several times a day.

rdl 11y ago

I'm curious if the health benefits of IF or moderate IF overwhelm the health detriment of appetite suppressant medications (e.g. amphetamines), in moderate doses.

subpixel 11y ago

If you're interested, I highly recommend giving this a watch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-20122013-3-eat-fast-and-live-longer http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01lxyzc/horizon-201220... (If you're not in the UK, connecting via VPN works). Twice a week fasting, where I eat a bowl of cereal and a piece of fruit and nothing else but coffee all day, has been working really well for me. Surprisingly, I've found I'm totally able to run a few miles on my fasting days to boot.

guard-of-terra 11y ago

Can we have this in a pill? Science telling me to go fasting is same as if science told me to go walk instead of providing an automobile. I know that it sounds unpositive but telling people how to live didn't work for the last 2000 years, probably more. They fail at this always. But giving them tools help a lot.

jhartmann 11y ago

The paper in Cell Metabolism is here: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)0...

zdw 11y ago
Contents of the diet are on this PDF: http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/pdfExtended/S1550-4131(1... The human fasting mimicking diet (FMD) program is a plant-based diet program designed to attain fasting-like effects while providing micronutrient nourishment (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and minimize the burden of fasting. It comprises proprietary vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, chamomile flower tea, and a vegetable supplement formula tablet. The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies ~1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 47% carbohydrate).
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- bradleyjg 11y ago
  It doesn't seem like the study can be replicated with that little information, and the word "proprietary" is especially worrying on that account.
  - ivanhoe 11y ago
    They'll brand it and sell it, it's obviously the plan. Now question is if this is really any better than all the other intermittent fasting technics, since they all describe pretty much the same benefits, but it's (for now) hard to quantify and compare the results and the risks...
    - gwern 11y ago
      And they didn't include a direct comparison to more common IF: the control in the mice and human was both one's normal diet. So the exact causal claim established a little ambiguous.

revelation 11y ago

What was the research plan here? We want to investigate a diets impact on aging? What are the negative results then? These are two extraordinarily complex, intertwined topics that to come up with a hypothesis like this on the limited evidence ends up appearing to be just a random search for correlations, terminating once you find one that has the right p value.

wlesieutre 11y ago
If you investigate enough diets: https://xkcd.com/882/ https://xkcd.com/882/
jhartmann 11y ago
This builds on some earlier work where the Authors investigated Intermittent water fasting on Chemotherapy recipients and found that their immune systems regenerated better. This paper appears to have found a way to mimic some of the effects on their previous protocol with something that is safer to do. The earlier paper is here: http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/abstract/S1934-5909(14)00151-9 http://www.cell.com/cell-stem-cell/abstract/S1934-5909(14)00...
vidarh 11y ago
There's pre-existing research on the effects of calorie restriction that have appeared to show effects indicating that they might be beneficial with respect to longevity, so it's very unlikely to have been a hypothesis they've just pulled out of thin air.

marvel_boy 11y ago

It worked (supposedly) in mice, not in humans. The title is misleading.

jhartmann 11y ago
No, they did a super small random pilot study. Here is the section from the actual paper on the results: In the FMD subjects, fasting blood glucose levels were reduced by 11.3% ± 2.3% (p < 0.001; FMD) and remained 5.9% ± 2.1% lower than baseline levels after resuming the normal diet following the third FMD cycle (p < 0.05; Figure 6B). Serum ketone bodies increased 3.7-fold at the end of the FMD regimen (p < 0.001) and returned to baseline levels following normal food intake (Figure 6C). Circulating IGF-1 was reduced by 24% by the end of the FMD period (p < 0.001) and remained 15% lower after resuming the normal diet (p < 0.01; Figure 6D). IGFBP-1 was increased 1.5-fold at the end of the FMD regimen (p < 0.01) and returned to baseline levels following normal food intake (Figure 6E). These results indicate that the FMD group was highly compliant and generally did not consume foods not included in the FMD box provided to them.
__z 11y ago
Did you read the whole thing? "In a pilot human trial, three cycles of a similar diet given to 19 subjects once a month for five days decreased risk factors and biomarkers for aging, diabetes, cardiovascular disease and cancer with no major adverse side effects, according to Longo."
- thomasrossi 11y ago
  You don't eat, so you don't stuff your cardiovascular system with fat, nothing new there (and if your problem is not genetic diabetes, then you are good to go against diabetes that way too). Also for the aging, digestion is a pretty intensive biochemical procedure, I am sure your tissues may like some rest from time to time, nothing new there either. What is not mentioned is that other biochemical pathways are triggered by starving, for instance, you digest your own muscular tissues. This may or may not be what you want. So basically you are avoiding some biochemical machinery just to trigger another.. balacing it looks sort of difficult and for sure picking 5 days in a month looks pretty random, I will wait the try different timings at least;P

tosseraccount 11y ago

Haven't they known this for a long time? http://jn.nutrition.org/content/31/3/363.full.pdf http://jn.nutrition.org/content/31/3/363.full.pdf APPARENT PROLONGATION OF THE LIFE SPAN OF RATS BY INTERMITTENT FASTING by ANTON J. CARLSON AND FREDERICK HOELZEL Department of Physiology, University of Chicago, Chkago (Received for publication October 4, 1945 )

jerf 11y ago
HN has carried news about fasting before, but this the first science article I've seen about a diet, i.e., food being eaten, that appears to mimic the benefits of fasting without actually fasting. That's a way easier sell for people, and also a way easier sell for doctors prescribing this to people who may be on the edge for other reasons and unable to sustain a true no-food fast. (As long as I'm commenting, I complained a couple of days ago about how I'm very strongly willing to bet now that the "standard" diet is really quite bad, but that I'm far weaker on what a good diet is. This is the sort of thing I mean... how useful is fasting? Can we simulate the results without having to pay as many costs? How does fasting integrate with a low-carb/low-glycemic-index/whatever-else-you-like diet? What's the biochemical mechanisms at play here? Can we use those mechanisms any other way? There's so, so much fantastic and useful work to be done here, and instead we spent nearly 50 years re-running the same damned studies over and over again, wrong. ("Are eggs good for you? Are eggs good for you? Are eggs good for you? Are eggs good for you? I propose to study the question of whether eggs are good for you, give me half a million dollars...."))
- erkkie 11y ago
  Eggs are good your you, eat them (laterish) in the morning with not too much carbs and possibly reap the benefits of fasting as well :)
leereeves 11y ago
Yes, this paper is building on that work; developing a diet with effects similar to intermittent/prolonged fasting.
__z 11y ago

kazinator 11y ago

The connection between longevity and caloric intake has been studied in mice: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3958810 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3958810 [1986!] "Mice from groups 3-6 [restricted intake] exhibited mean and maximal life spans 35-65% greater than for group 1 and 20-40% greater than for group 2. Mice from group 6 [most restricted intake] lived longest of all." Brackets mine.

Cyphus 11y ago
Indeed, but this study controlled for caloric intake. "The total monthly calorie intake was the same for the FMD and control diet groups, indicating that the effects were not the result of an overall dietary restriction."
reasonattlm 11y ago
There are studies showing benefits to isocaloric intermittent fasting in rodents - enough to make it reasonable to think that some mechanisms are due to timing of feeding rather than just plain old calorie restriction in a different guise. I'm having trouble digging one up in a short enough time frame at the moment, though. It is proving hard to find the specific paper I'm recalling in amongst all the non-isocaloric intermittent fasting studies.
Retric 11y ago
Oddly enough with people being slightly overweight seems to increase lifespan at least when looking at actuary tables. There are a lot of possible factors that may be involved. From changing behaviors, lifestyle, lack of disease, larger buffer before weight loss becomes an issue etc. Edit: It should be noted that this still a fairly low BMI compared to most middle aged Americans.
- carbocation 11y ago
  Interestingly, the same does not hold for overweight people who are diabetic: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1304501 http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1304501

brador 11y ago

What was the diet?

hathawsh 11y ago
It looks like the diet was ProLon: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon
- willlma 11y ago
  And what's in it? I can't find a specific diet plan anywhere.

hathawsh 11y ago

The authors disclosed they have equity in a company called L-Nutra, which intends to sell diet food packs: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon Nothing for sale yet, but hopefully the price will be competitive with do-it-yourselfers. I am cautiously optimistic about this direction.

Avshalom 11y ago
it is going to be very hard to be price-competitive with "not eating"
- primroot 11y ago
  just sell the test kits for all the supposed markers of longevity.
- hoodoof 11y ago
  Perhaps. I remember when bottled water became a big thing. I thought "What the? This is stupid, choice between free at the tap or buying a bottle of water? This will never work."
  - fineline 11y ago
    If you have kids check out The Lorax movie where the two marketing dudes are pitching the ad for bottled air.
jdnier 11y ago
As to what it is: "Prolon™1 and 2 are proprietary, solely plant-based products, comprised of vegetable medleys, broths, energy drinks, teas, and nutrition bars." So, it's a limited, plant-based diet you follow at intervals. I wonder if adopting a full-time plant-based diet would have similar effects, but without the caloric restriction.
Splendor 11y ago
That's interesting. Thanks for sharing.

toufique 11y ago

Appropriate article for the first day of Ramadan.

ohitsdom 11y ago

RadioLab did an interesting story on how fasting (or living through famines) impacts your children and grandchildren with significant health boosts. http://www.radiolab.org/story/251885-you-are-what-your-grandpa-eats/ http://www.radiolab.org/story/251885-you-are-what-your-grand...

reasonattlm 11y ago

There is much more background info on Longo and his work on intermittent fasting if you go digging. More interesting than this particular piece, which is very short on context and science relating to the study of intermittent fasting, calorie restriction as adjuvant cancer therapy, immune regeneration via fasting, etc. http://gero.usc.edu/faculty/longo/ http://gero.usc.edu/faculty/longo/ http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-06/uosc-fts060214.php http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-06/uosc-fts06021... http://michelsonmedical.org/2014/12/26/igf-1-fasting-discussion-valter-longo/ http://michelsonmedical.org/2014/12/26/igf-1-fasting-discuss... http://news.usc.edu/58074/wanted-a-recipe-for-longevity/ http://news.usc.edu/58074/wanted-a-recipe-for-longevity/ http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498742 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498742 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498743 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25498743 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25549805 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25549805

mark-r 11y ago
Also note that he's the founder of a company that produces the diet under test: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/about/team http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/about/team And he's applied for patents on the technique, e.g. http://patents.justia.com/patent/20150004280 http://patents.justia.com/patent/20150004280
tosseraccount 11y ago
Can you tl;dr , please. Does adjuvant therapy in the form of fasting affect survival in clinical trials in cancer patients? Is this proven and accepted?
- reasonattlm 11y ago
  Sure. It's a thing. See this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ "Proven" is of course a continuum rather than a binary state. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that calorie restriction and fasting are beneficial across the board, and in cancer, and specifically as adjuvants. Getting that past the FDA as an official approved treatment is still ongoing, I believe. Most likely because "eating less" is not attached to "we can make a huge amount of money charging for this" so who is going to pay for all the studies and data that the FDA wants? One of Longo's innovations is to have found a way to make that happen within the system, I think. More: https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=cancer%20%22dietary%20restriction%22 https://www.google.com/webhp?#q=cancer%20%22dietary%20restri...

stevebmark 11y ago

Ketosis also "mimics fastings", the main metabolic difference being nutritional ketosis is 0.5 - 3 mmol/L, while fasting is 3 - 5 mmol/L (betahydroxybuterate in the serum). The benefits of ketosis may also add longevity, possibly with similar mechanisms to fasting. It's likely intermittent fasting put the subjects of the study into mild ketosis. Bottom line: Ketosis may have benefits similar to fasting in terms of aging, but without having to fast :)

IndianAstronaut 11y ago
>Ketosis also "mimics fastings", Can you please provide a source on this?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- Balgair 11y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ketosis https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ketosis "During the usual overnight fast, the body's metabolism naturally switches into ketosis, and will switch back to glycolysis after a carbohydrate-rich meal. Longer-term ketosis may result from fasting or staying on a low-carbohydrate diet, and deliberately induced ketosis serves as a medical intervention for intractable epilepsy.[6] In glycolysis, higher levels of insulin promote storage of body fat and block release of fat from adipose tissues, while in ketosis, fat reserves are readily released and consumed.[5][7] For this reason, ketosis is sometimes referred to as the body's "fat burning" mode"
exelius 11y ago
Can confirm, keto diets burn weight like a motherfucker. They're also reasonably easy to maintain, since it's pretty easy to order a cheeseburger without a bun and eat it with a knife and fork. Also, bacon and avocado are a delicious combination, and keto says they are ok. I dropped 40 lbs in under 6 months on a keto diet, and built muscle while doing it. But I had to stop the keto diet because it makes me stupid when I'm on it. I'm not talking the "keto fog" that you experience for a few days when your body is adjusting; operating in extended ketosis for me correlated with a marked decline in mental capacity. I went from being a rockstar knowledge worker to someone who couldn't do simple arithmetic. And my mental faculties would return within an hour if I ate a bagel. Ketones (what your body burns for energy when there are no sugars available) don't penetrate to the brain, so your body produces sugars from protein through gluconeogenesis, but it wasn't really enough to keep me functioning at 100%. Also, you don't want to be frequently transitioning in/out of ketosis; it gives you horrible headaches.

Rainymood 11y ago

I currently intermittent fast by skipping breakfast + lunch, partially because I'm lazy, partially because it allows me to easily eat 'all my calories' in the end of the day. I really like this as it provides a 'buffer' for unexpected food, such as random cake, or random lunches with colleagues etc. Has anyone here actually ever TRIED fasting a full 24h day? I have. I HATED it. Well, the fasting itself wasn't that bad, however, the next day my body went FULL berserk mode and I literally couldn't stop myself from eating. It was really weird and I never had such strong biological urges. That's when I decided I'd just stick to fasting until 5 pm when I eat diner.

teach 11y ago
Just for the record, skipping breakfast + lunch has nothing whatsoever to do with fasting. It's not even remotely similar in terms of how your body reacts to it. And as others have commented yes there are many of us who have fasted for days at a time for religious reasons.
- greensoap 11y ago
  He said intermittent fasting. IF is basically what he described. 16 hours of no eating with an 8 hour window where you eat. I think some people take it farther--20 hours of fasting (water permitted) followed by caloric intake for four hours.
  - __z 11y ago
    IF includes a lot of different eating schedules - Eating for 5 days a week and fasting for 2 is a common practice too. When I did IF I fasted every 4 days.
- __z 11y ago
  Fasting means abstaining from food for a period of time. Breakfast is called breakfast because you fast while you sleep and break the fast with breakfast so break-fast. Sure a 24 hr fast isn't a multi day fast but that doesn't mean it isn't a fast. 24 hr fasts are a commom intermittent fasting schedule. Religious practices that are called fasting last less than several days. When my doctor wants me in the fasted state (bloodwork/surgery) they say no food for 8-12 hrs. Saying short fasts have "nothing to do with fasting" is totally untrue.

krmmalik 11y ago

Appropriate article since I just completed a fast of 19hrs. No water and no food. Muslims do this every year. Last year, on average our fast was just over 18hrs. We fast each day from sunrise to sunset for 30days. Of course, we as a group of people have been doing it for over a thousand years. Cant say we started it due to science, but cant say we noticed the lack of aging either. ;)

Avshalom 11y ago
I have never met a Muslim that didn't put on 5 kilos during ramadan from ridiculous iftars and judicious day light napping. I suspect that may cancel out any benefit fasting might have.
- krmmalik 11y ago
  Hehe. Yes that does happen a lot. Usually with people that fast more due to societal pressure or for cultural reasons rather than for religious reasons. To be honest fasting never was or is for health reasons and though it may seem that way it's not just about food. It's about abstaining from as many evils/ills as possible; not backbiting, no wasting time on trivial things, not being lazy, not being arrogant or egotistical. Etc etc. Call it a personality detox if you will. Unfortunately for outside observers that interact with casual fasters, the discussion tends to revolve around the abstinence from food only.
- bmajz 11y ago
  Nice to make your e-acquaintance. Counter-example: Fasted the last couple of years in a -20% calorie deficit. Did nap during the day, but then worked out right before iftar (dinner). It's not an uncommon regimen. Just like anything else with a n of 500M (+/- 200M depending on number of adults and sick/elderly), it's hard to make a generalization. Personally though, it went fine in terms of productivity and energy. Trying to work out without that nap was pretty brutal but fasts are long enough to fit it in after work.
  - Avshalom 11y ago
    Hi! I say that crack about ramadan with all the affection in the world, I really do. I'm from a long line of catholics who give up sobriety for lent. It is my favorite human thing in the world that we can turn a fast holy month into a feast holiday. Though I am a bit more serious about the the gorging/extra sleep probably negating the benefits. I don't have the studies on hand but I think that most of the fasting studies usually assume a 'normal' diet and lifestyle during non fasting periods.

ziyadparekh 11y ago

What was the actual diet ?

erkkie 11y ago
From TFA (http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)0...): The development of the human diet took into account feasibility (e.g., high adherence to the dietary protocol) and therefore was designed to last 5 days every month and to provide between 34% and 54% of the normal caloric intake with a composition of at least 9%–10% proteins, 34%–47% carbohydrates, and 44%–56% fat.

ams6110 11y ago

Anecdotally, when I was a kid I had goldfish at one point. I noticed that if they were fed daily they didn't live very long. If they were fed once or twice a week they seemed to live forever.

dogma1138 11y ago
You are not supposed to feed the fish everyday, they died because you've poison their water, especially if this was in a small tank without an integral water filtration system. When you saturate the water with fish food (and also well fish poop) you pretty much give bacteria a free reign in the water which causes the water to be extremely anaerobic, so yep you've caused your fish to drown :)
novaleaf 11y ago
i too remember that, but for some kind of tropical almost-transparent freshwater fish. Their lifespan was supposed to be about 2 years, but we fed it once a week and it lived perhaps 7 years, until it jumped out of a bowl and suffocated while we were cleaning it's tank!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
mikekchar 11y ago
Gold fish have a typical life span of 20-30 years. However, they are actually very difficult fish to keep. Unless you replace the water very, very frequently (like every day or so), the recommended amount of water is 10 gallons (~40 liters) per fish! Most people put gold fish in ridiculously inappropriate bowls/tanks and think that they live for only a few months or a year. As someone else pointed out, the reason your fish lived longer when you fed them less is because you were reducing the amount of ammonia (from rotting food, or from fish waste) in the water.

voidlogic 11y ago

Previously it has been found that eating a ketogenic diet (<20g carbs/day for most, adq. protien, most cals from fat) mimics long term caloric restriction- And, at least to me, that sounds much more appealing that eating a severe calorie deficient... I lost 40 lbs on keto eating mostly (by volume) non-carby veggies and mostly (by calories) fat, along with 80-120g of protein per day. I'd really like to see their complex diet tested against a well formulated ketogenic diet.

throwaway12309 11y ago
ok, since this is posted here every freaking time there is an article about dieting in HN, let me stress this out: A Ketogenic diet (per the actual medical definition and not from fitness gurus) is not low carb, adequate protein and high fat. it is high fat, little to no carbs and low protein. From medical recommendations, calories from fat should be in the 85-90% range. Most of the articles you read about the benefits of ketogenic diet is the MEDICAL definition and not the fitness definition. Also, protein as a nutrient creates a similar insulin response as carbs. (nothing against keto diets, but they just seem to be the hip diet of the moment and annoys me when this keeps being stated)
- voidlogic 11y ago
  >Also, protein as a nutrient creates a similar insulin response as carbs. If you look at graphs comparing them you will see protein is greatly blunted compared to carbs. The body being in ketosis is primarily medicated by the availability of liver glycogen, temporarily insulin spikes will at worst only pause ketosis. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, but (compared to felines) the human body can't do much of this and its usually only an issue if someone exceeds the standard recommendation of 0.8g of protein per lbs of lean body mass by x2 or more. Any diet that keeps your ketones high, ie keeps you in ketosis (assuming you are healthy) is a ketogenic diet by the scientific definition.
  - CuriouslyC 11y ago
    Actually, it depends on the protein. In particular, proteins rich in the amino acid Leucine (such as whey) are actually more insulinogenic calorie for calorie than white bread.

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eclipxe 11y ago

Another strong recommendation for Ketosis/keto diet. Only thing that I've been able to lose weight with long term.

vannevar 11y ago

Before you take any diet science story seriously, read this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9714985 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9714985 . It's sadly easy to generate 'significant' results and get them published if you want to.

spectrum1234 11y ago

Stuff like this way more obvious if you start to think about it. Is putting your body in a safe bubble to live optimal? Does nurture always beat nature? Of course not. Some amount of stress and physical challenge MUST be optimal (defined as reduce aging). What USC just did here is pick a solid guess in the range of fairly optimal. For the fasting parameter, (of many to choose from that cause stress or physical challenge) again with heuristics, we can first drill down to a sub-parameter of "being fairly hungry". Given the previous logic, this variable must be a component of slowing aging. Now if you had to guess from 1 day to 50 days or even 250 days, what would you guess is the optimal time of "being fairly hungry" to reduce aging? Mostly people would probably guess 2-10 days using the heuristics of "one day is just too little to have an effect" and "15+ days just cant be safe for you body." I'm surprised I hadn't heard about a study like this before. What I am not surprised by is that the optimal range is right in the middle of the optimal range from simple heuristics. The next heuristic you can tack on is timing between fasts. Using the same logic you will get very close to the timing between fasts USC is suggests.

Mitchhhs 11y ago

This has been known for a long time. The big question is whether this can actually work in humans. Rhesus Monkey's have shown some promising results, but the evidence is conflicting. I also wrote an article recently on this and other forms of lifespan extension: http://mitchkirby.com/2015/06/02/can-we-live-forever/ http://mitchkirby.com/2015/06/02/can-we-live-forever/

dzhiurgis 11y ago

Any chance this could be related to this? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laron_syndrome#Clinical_characteristics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laron_syndrome#Clinical_charac... I remember hearing about this in some BBC Horizon show.

codexjourneys 11y ago

I've seen this claim several times in connection with different studies. I believe the hugest benefits apply to organisms that eat a restricted number of calories for all or most of their lifespan. And it's probably not only the number of calories, but also the quality of food that matters. Nutrient-dense, low-calorie diets could be worth a try, but how long could you stick with them? Giant page of research: http://qualitycounts.com/fpcalorie.html http://qualitycounts.com/fpcalorie.html

dschiptsov 11y ago

Each and every Eastern religion emphasised fasting - Hindu and Muslims and Buddhists know the benefits of it. Basically it means less burden, less load to the system (we are a system) and, as a by-product, the exercise of self-control, which is the key to personal success (delayed gratification and related concepts). Thinking about tribal eating habits, one could realize that there is no single "right" diet, but a pepper set of habits of moderate austerity in consumption and sticking to simple, unprocessed, traditional (evolved according with local food sources) dishes. To put it simply - conditioned by media overconsumption of processed junk food is the cause of suffering and a major contribution to ageing.

ommunist 11y ago

Just stick to porridge. And an apple a day keeps diet sellers away.

piyushpr134 11y ago

Hello from India, We know this since vedic times i.e. about 1750 to 500BC. Thank you!

erkkie 11y ago

The article in question http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)00224-7 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/abstract/S1550-4131(15)0...

tkyjonathan 11y ago

There have been studies that prove that reducing meat consumption is the main benefit of fasting for slowing down ageing and that fasting has many negative psychological effects. If you eat foods with low amounts of the amino acids methionine and leucine, you could significantly reduce age-related diseases and the risk for certain cancers. http://nutritionfacts.org/2015/06/11/exploiting-autophagy-to-live-longer/ http://nutritionfacts.org/2015/06/11/exploiting-autophagy-to...

fasteo 11y ago

On the mechanistic side of things, it seems that fasting, among other things, cause a mild mitochondrial uncoupling[1]. This uncoupling seems the main reason for the extended life span[2] If we give some credit to this hypothesis then yes, we will have a pill to slow down aging. It can go from a simple aspirin[3] (baby-aspirin anyone?), to the dangerous DNP in a low-dose, controlled release formulation[4], the novel cationic uncouplers [5], or the safe mitoBHT [6]. That said, you can just get a cold shower every morning[7] I am even researching this area to treat my primary mitochondrial disfuntion[8] [1] In simple terms, it means that the mitochondria generates less energy in the form of ATP and more energy as heat. [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21483800 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21483800 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC316328/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC316328/ [4] http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1467-789X.2001.00043.x/abstract http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1046/j.1467-789X.2001.... [5] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26071782 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26071782 [6] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267406/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2267406/ [7] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18335051 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18335051 [8] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21275885 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21275885

snthpy 11y ago

A lot of the pathways that are mentioned here in the comments were discussed at the "Interventions to Slow Aging in Humans: Are We Ready?" conference in Italy in 2013 that Valter Longo from the article was also part of. They reviewed the different pathways and summarised them here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acel.12338/full http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acel.12338/full

ajarmst 11y ago

Sigh. The plural of anecdote is not data, rodent studies are useful but only relevant for designing proper human studies (not replacing them), and any aging "study" that works with a few dozen subjects over a few months is not science but marketing.

tim333 11y ago

I was annoyed the article didn't actually say what the diet was. Anyway from the Telegraph report of the same story: Day one of the diet comprises: 10 per cent protein, 56 per cent fat and 34 per cent carbohydrate, making 1,090 calories Days two to five: Nine per cent protein, 44 per cent fat and 47 per cent carbohydrate making 725 calories

rmoyer 11y ago

This study is definitely leading up to an FDA (they hope) approved, marketable diet. The actual study does give some hints at what the diet is comprised of, "to last 5 days every month and to provide between 34% and 54% of the normal caloric intake with a composition of at least 9%–10% proteins, 34%–47% carbohydrates, and 44%–56% fat". ... but reading further one finds this section: "Human Diet The human fasting mimicking diet (FMD) program is a plant-based diet program designed to attain fasting-like effects while providing micronutrient nourishment (vitamins, minerals, etc.) and minimize the burden of fasting. It comprises proprietary vegetable-based soups, energy bars, energy drinks, chip snacks, chamomile flower tea, and a vegetable supplement formula tablet (Table S4). The human FMD diet consists of a 5 day regimen: day 1 of the diet supplies 1,090 kcal (10% protein, 56% fat, 34% carbohydrate), days 2–5 are identical in formulation and provide 725 kcal (9% protein, 44% fat, 4

rmoyer 11y ago
Forgot to add the link. Sorry. Here is the full text of their pseudo-scientific research: http://bit.ly/1MRWyhv http://bit.ly/1MRWyhv I used bitly.com to shorten this link, and it takes you to a page that begins to download the pdf file associated. For those worried about the link, here is the full version of the link: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCgQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cell.com%2Fcell-metabolism%2FpdfExtended%2FS1550-4131(15)00224-7&ei=tx2EVfycBoGjsAW89IOICw&usg=AFQjCNGFlPxmPfOvLteOC804KZ-cCfvb8g&bvm=bv.96042044,d.b2w http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd...

rmoyer 11y ago