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> It's sad that the irony of the situation is lost on the person requesting the removal of the core developer. Do you also think it would be a sad irony for a

> It's sad that the irony of the situation is lost on the person requesting the removal of the core developer. Do you also think it would be a sad irony for a person of color to want a KKK member off the team? This comment is so bad and lacking so much empathy as to be harmful. Ugh.

chazu 11y ago
While I don't condone hateful remarks (I'm queer myself, fwiw) I don't think its correct to equate being a member of a terrorist organization like the KKK with making a few bigoted tweets. That being said I haven't looked into the nature of @elia 's comments, so maybe they're egregious.
kbenson 11y ago
> Do you also think it would be a sad irony for a person of color to want a KKK member off the team? Yes, for the exactly the same reasons I stated, as long as the KKK member just expressed views, and there weren't associated actions (maybe membership in the KKK is enough if there are dues and those go towards specific actions?) > This comment is so bad and lacking so much empathy as to be harmful. Ugh. I do empathize, but if we turn this around, and it was a transgender person under pressure to leave from a transphobic person, how is the argument different? Keep in mind that if your argument uses social norms, how would it play out 20 or 30 years ago? How would you defend the right of transgender people then? I submit that a safe default to protect marginalized people to some degree, independent of social norms so that it's less susceptible to current public opinion, is to default to leaving people's personal opinions out of other aspects of their lives. Sometimes it means letting people get away with bad behavior, such as transgender slander, but other times it allows for marginalized people that face extreme penalties from society for personal decisions to survive, and I think that's worthwhile. It's the concept of free speech, expanded. Though I may hate what you say,I will defend your right to say it, and protect you from excessive social punishment.

chazu 11y ago

While I don't condone hateful remarks (I'm queer myself, fwiw) I don't think its correct to equate being a member of a terrorist organization like the KKK with making a few bigoted tweets. That being said I haven't looked into the nature of @elia 's comments, so maybe they're egregious.

kbenson 11y ago

> Do you also think it would be a sad irony for a person of color to want a KKK member off the team? Yes, for the exactly the same reasons I stated, as long as the KKK member just expressed views, and there weren't associated actions (maybe membership in the KKK is enough if there are dues and those go towards specific actions?) > This comment is so bad and lacking so much empathy as to be harmful. Ugh. I do empathize, but if we turn this around, and it was a transgender person under pressure to leave from a transphobic person, how is the argument different? Keep in mind that if your argument uses social norms, how would it play out 20 or 30 years ago? How would you defend the right of transgender people then? I submit that a safe default to protect marginalized people to some degree, independent of social norms so that it's less susceptible to current public opinion, is to default to leaving people's personal opinions out of other aspects of their lives. Sometimes it means letting people get away with bad behavior, such as transgender slander, but other times it allows for marginalized people that face extreme penalties from society for personal decisions to survive, and I think that's worthwhile. It's the concept of free speech, expanded. Though I may hate what you say,I will defend your right to say it, and protect you from excessive social punishment.