4 ms·

All of these payments services are going to die within 5 years anyway. Before people get all pissy and down vote this assertion let me you remind you that a mas

by AC__ 11y ago

All of these payments services are going to die within 5 years anyway. Before people get all pissy and down vote this assertion let me you remind you that a massive(and growing) portion of the world has become completely disillusioned with the global fiat currency system(or perhaps just enlightened as to how it works?), regardless, its days are numbered. I am not however entirely convinced that cryptocurrencies, namely bitcoin, aren't in fact a creation of global financiers anticipating rejection of the fiat currency model, but fuck it we'll see.

Aloha 11y ago
This holds about as much water as a colander. Show me a survey show this supposed massive disillusionment with fiat currency.
- AC__ 11y ago
  Umm what about entire countries...Iceland...Greece.
  - thoughtpolice 11y ago
    You didn't answer his question as to where this 'clear mass disillusionment' is. Where is the actual proof fiat is on the way out?
  - task_queue 11y ago
    How are you twisting debt crises into a pitch for Bitcoin, the most centralized, 100% traceable and accountable crypto-currency on the net?
  - Aloha 11y ago
    In both Iceland and Greece you saw a massive loss of trust with the existing government (both since replaced democratically)- that has nothing to do with peoples faith in their currency, as you've not seen a real call in either place to go back to a specie backed currency. In Greece there have been calls to go back to the Drachma - but this doesn't mean a lack of faith in fiat currency, the greeks seem to more want out of the EU currency union then anything else.
jakob223 11y ago
What do you expect to replace it?
- AC__ 11y ago
  I expect Bitcoin will be global currency.
  - task_queue 11y ago
    I want to live in the world where only 7 transaction can occur a second.
    - onetallnerd 11y ago
      Nope. At least soon that won't be the case. (soon as in a few months maybe a year) Check out the lightning network: http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/13/down-the-blockchain-rabbit-hole/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/13/down-the-blockchain-rabbit-... "In theory, this distributed micropayment network–the Lightning Network–could scale Bitcoin transactions up to “billions of transactions per day” across the planet, with minimal use of the blockchain and minimal fees (zero, for direct channels.)" Instant and way more than 7 tps... Settled on the blockchain and still decentralized. ;)
      - task_queue 11y ago
        It's a new protocol that needs to be accepted on top of the blockchain with its own 3rd party sidechain, just like all the other proposed solutions that were never accepted by the community. Cool. Meanwhile, Bitcoin is still 7 TPS.
      - davidgerard 11y ago
        Lightning Network has a number of problems as the solution for Bitcoin's problems: 2. It's a sidechain - that is to say, an altcoin that claims a link to Bitcoin. The forces that would cause mutually-distrusting individual humans to maintain the linkage is unclear. 1. Like other sidechains, but unlike altcoins, it ... doesn't exist. This is a subtle point, but I think it might be an important one. (not that I am any fan of altcoins either. But basically, the Bitcoin protocol as it stands was never designed with scaling in mind.)
task_queue 11y ago
There are more people trying to get Mickey Mouse into the White House than there are competent people with realistic opinions about Bitcoin.
thoughtpolice 11y ago
Hacker News: where some people legitimately believe that the entire world will abandon the current credit/monetary system, because reasons (or alternatively, "just because" - you know, to see 'how it works', because an entirely new monetary system is like testing on some FiveFinger shoes to be spontaneous). Also, Bitcoin is totally an invention by the Fed to ween people off fiat, despite the fact the Bitcoin network and its total overall volume are a joke compared to global currency trade, and basically worse, or completely irrelevant, for consumers in pretty much all cases. If there was any ever proof techno libertarian supernerds are insanely disconnected from reality, stuff like this is it. You have a better chance of actually being The Highlander. But seriously, I could write a comedy novel about this stuff at this point - so do continue to go on.
- AC__ 11y ago
  I'm disconnected from reality? So how do you view the global monetary system working 10 years from now? Will the world be using U.S. petro-dollars? Can the fed print off another hundred TRILLION and avoid hyper-inflation. Like it is all well and good to say I have my head up my ass but can you give me some of these answers?
  - task_queue 11y ago
    Why would the world shift from a currency that is economically and politically entrenched via trade and treaty? What would Bitcoin solve that the USD doesn't? Why would the world accept a technological "solution" whose implementation already contains dire technical problems? What makes you think hyperinflation is a realistic outcome? If I grant you a world that decides fiat model is Bad, why would they choose a system that is inherently centralized? One whose early adopters and hoarders have been manipulating the crypto-currency market for their advantage for years? One whose transaction history is public to _everyone_? One that only has a handful of gatekeepers, that have been proven to work with governments and have been caught delaying transactions to profit from the change in the price in Bitcoin?
  - thoughtpolice 11y ago
    I don't know, will the Fed also use Jedi Mind Tricks to mind control us into submission while flouride and chemtrails are just a red herring? News at 11! I find it thoroughly hilarious that when someone pokes at your original assertion that "the whole monetary system is going to collapse" - a completely unsubstantiated claim that is hilarious at face value - you shriek about "well what about hyperinflation?!?!?! explain that, checkmate bro" I could ask you "what does Bitcoin do that USD doesn't", "how will bitcoin topple an international system bound by trade and agreement to minimize risk", "what about bitcoin's obviously huge deflation problem", "what about the huge amount of flaws in bitcoin's implementation today", or - just spitballing here - "why the fuck would super hyperinflation actually happen", which was your original claim... But why bother? It's much more easy to watch you try to justify it in weirdo ways with claims about infinite money and what amounts to bigfoot. You know, the same way people like Ron Paul robots have been doing since 1981: http://ron-paul.tumblr.com/post/25365125/i-believe-such-a-standard-to-be-not-only-desirable http://ron-paul.tumblr.com/post/25365125/i-believe-such-a-st.... The only difference now is instead of libertarians having a goldbug, they have a bitcoin bug. Or maybe Ron Paul was right and hyperinflation has actually been going on since 1981, omg?!?! And to answer your first question: yes, techno singularity nerds are absolutely disconnected from reality if they think the magics of The Blockchain are the solution to actual economic woes, or hell, even daily financial ones for ordinary people. After all, I forgot how much I want a global network that can only do < 10 TPS, doesn't have fraud prevention, and is surprisingly non-anonymous, as well as ridiculously power inefficient. VisaNet only does close to 50,000 TPS with essentially zero downtime globally per year - why's that a big deal?
danellis 11y ago
> All of these payments services are going to die within 5 years anyway. Ooh, can we bet money on that?

by AC__ 11y ago

Aloha 11y ago

This holds about as much water as a colander. Show me a survey show this supposed massive disillusionment with fiat currency.

AC__ 11y ago
Umm what about entire countries...Iceland...Greece.
- thoughtpolice 11y ago
  You didn't answer his question as to where this 'clear mass disillusionment' is. Where is the actual proof fiat is on the way out?
- task_queue 11y ago
  How are you twisting debt crises into a pitch for Bitcoin, the most centralized, 100% traceable and accountable crypto-currency on the net?
- Aloha 11y ago
  In both Iceland and Greece you saw a massive loss of trust with the existing government (both since replaced democratically)- that has nothing to do with peoples faith in their currency, as you've not seen a real call in either place to go back to a specie backed currency. In Greece there have been calls to go back to the Drachma - but this doesn't mean a lack of faith in fiat currency, the greeks seem to more want out of the EU currency union then anything else.

jakob223 11y ago

What do you expect to replace it?

AC__ 11y ago
I expect Bitcoin will be global currency.
- task_queue 11y ago
  I want to live in the world where only 7 transaction can occur a second.
  - onetallnerd 11y ago
    Nope. At least soon that won't be the case. (soon as in a few months maybe a year) Check out the lightning network: http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/13/down-the-blockchain-rabbit-hole/ http://techcrunch.com/2015/06/13/down-the-blockchain-rabbit-... "In theory, this distributed micropayment network–the Lightning Network–could scale Bitcoin transactions up to “billions of transactions per day” across the planet, with minimal use of the blockchain and minimal fees (zero, for direct channels.)" Instant and way more than 7 tps... Settled on the blockchain and still decentralized. ;)
    - task_queue 11y ago
      It's a new protocol that needs to be accepted on top of the blockchain with its own 3rd party sidechain, just like all the other proposed solutions that were never accepted by the community. Cool. Meanwhile, Bitcoin is still 7 TPS.
    - davidgerard 11y ago
      Lightning Network has a number of problems as the solution for Bitcoin's problems: 2. It's a sidechain - that is to say, an altcoin that claims a link to Bitcoin. The forces that would cause mutually-distrusting individual humans to maintain the linkage is unclear. 1. Like other sidechains, but unlike altcoins, it ... doesn't exist. This is a subtle point, but I think it might be an important one. (not that I am any fan of altcoins either. But basically, the Bitcoin protocol as it stands was never designed with scaling in mind.)

task_queue 11y ago

There are more people trying to get Mickey Mouse into the White House than there are competent people with realistic opinions about Bitcoin.

thoughtpolice 11y ago

Hacker News: where some people legitimately believe that the entire world will abandon the current credit/monetary system, because reasons (or alternatively, "just because" - you know, to see 'how it works', because an entirely new monetary system is like testing on some FiveFinger shoes to be spontaneous). Also, Bitcoin is totally an invention by the Fed to ween people off fiat, despite the fact the Bitcoin network and its total overall volume are a joke compared to global currency trade, and basically worse, or completely irrelevant, for consumers in pretty much all cases. If there was any ever proof techno libertarian supernerds are insanely disconnected from reality, stuff like this is it. You have a better chance of actually being The Highlander. But seriously, I could write a comedy novel about this stuff at this point - so do continue to go on.

AC__ 11y ago
I'm disconnected from reality? So how do you view the global monetary system working 10 years from now? Will the world be using U.S. petro-dollars? Can the fed print off another hundred TRILLION and avoid hyper-inflation. Like it is all well and good to say I have my head up my ass but can you give me some of these answers?
- task_queue 11y ago
  Why would the world shift from a currency that is economically and politically entrenched via trade and treaty? What would Bitcoin solve that the USD doesn't? Why would the world accept a technological "solution" whose implementation already contains dire technical problems? What makes you think hyperinflation is a realistic outcome? If I grant you a world that decides fiat model is Bad, why would they choose a system that is inherently centralized? One whose early adopters and hoarders have been manipulating the crypto-currency market for their advantage for years? One whose transaction history is public to _everyone_? One that only has a handful of gatekeepers, that have been proven to work with governments and have been caught delaying transactions to profit from the change in the price in Bitcoin?
- thoughtpolice 11y ago
  I don't know, will the Fed also use Jedi Mind Tricks to mind control us into submission while flouride and chemtrails are just a red herring? News at 11! I find it thoroughly hilarious that when someone pokes at your original assertion that "the whole monetary system is going to collapse" - a completely unsubstantiated claim that is hilarious at face value - you shriek about "well what about hyperinflation?!?!?! explain that, checkmate bro" I could ask you "what does Bitcoin do that USD doesn't", "how will bitcoin topple an international system bound by trade and agreement to minimize risk", "what about bitcoin's obviously huge deflation problem", "what about the huge amount of flaws in bitcoin's implementation today", or - just spitballing here - "why the fuck would super hyperinflation actually happen", which was your original claim... But why bother? It's much more easy to watch you try to justify it in weirdo ways with claims about infinite money and what amounts to bigfoot. You know, the same way people like Ron Paul robots have been doing since 1981: http://ron-paul.tumblr.com/post/25365125/i-believe-such-a-standard-to-be-not-only-desirable http://ron-paul.tumblr.com/post/25365125/i-believe-such-a-st.... The only difference now is instead of libertarians having a goldbug, they have a bitcoin bug. Or maybe Ron Paul was right and hyperinflation has actually been going on since 1981, omg?!?! And to answer your first question: yes, techno singularity nerds are absolutely disconnected from reality if they think the magics of The Blockchain are the solution to actual economic woes, or hell, even daily financial ones for ordinary people. After all, I forgot how much I want a global network that can only do < 10 TPS, doesn't have fraud prevention, and is surprisingly non-anonymous, as well as ridiculously power inefficient. VisaNet only does close to 50,000 TPS with essentially zero downtime globally per year - why's that a big deal?

danellis 11y ago

> All of these payments services are going to die within 5 years anyway. Ooh, can we bet money on that?