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Uber and Lyft are operating a model that clearly works for customers. And yet they rightly face legal issues. The thing that perplexes me is that existing taxi

Uber and Lyft are operating a model that clearly works for customers. And yet they rightly face legal issues. The thing that perplexes me is that existing taxi companies, who are licensed and otherwise compliant with the law, don't adopt the best parts of Uber and Lyft? Why can't I call a black cab in London the way I call a ride from Uber?

seehafer 11y ago
They're trying that in SF. It's called Flywheel. And it's more expensive than Uber and not as good of an experience, because you have no power to rate down poor drivers.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  Rating poor drivers has limited benefit, as I don't believe taxi drivers are allowed to turn down fares.
- gmisra 11y ago
  This is incorrect, after every ride you have the opportunity to rate your experience on the same low information 1-5 star scale as Uber. It's more expensive because the cost is not subsidized by VC capital, and the rates are regulated in order to provide wage floors for the drivers (amongst other things). Not everybody values minimum wages, but it's worth knowing why the cost is higher.
jonlucc 11y ago
> Uber and Lyft are operating a model that clearly works for customers. And yet they rightly face legal issues. It isn't terribly surprising that they can offer cheaper service than incumbents by avoiding the costs of the incumbent. The technology problem they solved is very convenient, but I'm not sure that contributes significantly to the lower costs.
- Spearchucker 11y ago
  Hey this is anecdotal, be warned - many of my friends (all of those with kids) say they'd be happy to pay more for the peace of mind. To most of them the illegalities of Uber and Lyft are hazy, if not opaque. But they all know things aren't entirely kosher.
rbobby 11y ago
If Uber was smaller and hadn't pissed off so many taxi companies they could pivot into providing a front/back office system to taxi companies. Taxi companies could then get rid of their own dispatchers (gotta be a significant savings right there), their own radio network, and the per car radio transmitters. Plus the rating system would help cab companies identify crappy drivers. Customer would still get the convenience of hailing and paying for a cab via a smart phone. Plus the rating system could be used to ensure that if a customer gave a driver/car a bad rating that customer would never see that driver/car again. Uber per transaction gross would be smaller... but they could enter many more markets much faster, have a significant legal services savings (i.e. they wouldn't be sued anywhere near as often), and possibly a savings on marketing (no longer need to market to drivers and customers... only need a sales team that targets taxi companies). And insurance savings... Uber wouldn't need to provide car insurance during trips. And HR savings... the hiring and vetting of drivers remains with the taxi companies.
fragmede 11y ago
They're less well known compared to Uber, but such a thing exists, at least in a couple major US cities: http://flywheel.com/ http://flywheel.com/
justincormack 11y ago
Well actually you can order taxis in London, either in advance, which you cant do with Uber, or immediately - London radio cabs has been on 020 7272 0272 for decades. Yeah there are apps too.
s73v3r 11y ago
Customers are not the only piece in the equation. And many taxi companies do have apps similar to Uber. At least in the populous areas of the States.
gmisra 11y ago
In many places, you now can. And it is worth noting that Uber/Lyft put significant pressure on taxi companies to modernize into smartphone friendly businesses (pre-Uber apps, like TaxiMagic v1, were awful). ps - are you aware that in American English, your username is a rather offensive racial epithet?
r00fus 11y ago
Well, to use a potentially inappropriate analogy, prostitutes also operate a model that clearly works for their customers and face legal issues as well.
dragonwriter 11y ago
> The thing that perplexes me is that existing taxi companies, who are licensed and otherwise compliant with the law, don't adopt the best parts of Uber and Lyft? If, by that, you mean the ride-hailing app -- the main part that isn't challenged as an evasion of either taxi laws or labor laws -- they are (e.g., the Flywheel app.) Not as much visibility, because it doesn't have the dedicated capital and media attention flowing into it from being "disruptive".
vacri 11y ago
Uber and Lyft are operating a model that clearly works for customers. And yet they rightly face legal issues. Well, the same applies to child-labour sweatshops that make shoes...

seehafer 11y ago

They're trying that in SF. It's called Flywheel. And it's more expensive than Uber and not as good of an experience, because you have no power to rate down poor drivers.

s73v3r 11y ago
Rating poor drivers has limited benefit, as I don't believe taxi drivers are allowed to turn down fares.
gmisra 11y ago
This is incorrect, after every ride you have the opportunity to rate your experience on the same low information 1-5 star scale as Uber. It's more expensive because the cost is not subsidized by VC capital, and the rates are regulated in order to provide wage floors for the drivers (amongst other things). Not everybody values minimum wages, but it's worth knowing why the cost is higher.

jonlucc 11y ago

> Uber and Lyft are operating a model that clearly works for customers. And yet they rightly face legal issues. It isn't terribly surprising that they can offer cheaper service than incumbents by avoiding the costs of the incumbent. The technology problem they solved is very convenient, but I'm not sure that contributes significantly to the lower costs.

Spearchucker 11y ago
Hey this is anecdotal, be warned - many of my friends (all of those with kids) say they'd be happy to pay more for the peace of mind. To most of them the illegalities of Uber and Lyft are hazy, if not opaque. But they all know things aren't entirely kosher.

rbobby 11y ago

If Uber was smaller and hadn't pissed off so many taxi companies they could pivot into providing a front/back office system to taxi companies. Taxi companies could then get rid of their own dispatchers (gotta be a significant savings right there), their own radio network, and the per car radio transmitters. Plus the rating system would help cab companies identify crappy drivers. Customer would still get the convenience of hailing and paying for a cab via a smart phone. Plus the rating system could be used to ensure that if a customer gave a driver/car a bad rating that customer would never see that driver/car again. Uber per transaction gross would be smaller... but they could enter many more markets much faster, have a significant legal services savings (i.e. they wouldn't be sued anywhere near as often), and possibly a savings on marketing (no longer need to market to drivers and customers... only need a sales team that targets taxi companies). And insurance savings... Uber wouldn't need to provide car insurance during trips. And HR savings... the hiring and vetting of drivers remains with the taxi companies.

fragmede 11y ago

They're less well known compared to Uber, but such a thing exists, at least in a couple major US cities: http://flywheel.com/ http://flywheel.com/

justincormack 11y ago

Well actually you can order taxis in London, either in advance, which you cant do with Uber, or immediately - London radio cabs has been on 020 7272 0272 for decades. Yeah there are apps too.

s73v3r 11y ago

Customers are not the only piece in the equation. And many taxi companies do have apps similar to Uber. At least in the populous areas of the States.

gmisra 11y ago

In many places, you now can. And it is worth noting that Uber/Lyft put significant pressure on taxi companies to modernize into smartphone friendly businesses (pre-Uber apps, like TaxiMagic v1, were awful). ps - are you aware that in American English, your username is a rather offensive racial epithet?

r00fus 11y ago

Well, to use a potentially inappropriate analogy, prostitutes also operate a model that clearly works for their customers and face legal issues as well.

dragonwriter 11y ago

> The thing that perplexes me is that existing taxi companies, who are licensed and otherwise compliant with the law, don't adopt the best parts of Uber and Lyft? If, by that, you mean the ride-hailing app -- the main part that isn't challenged as an evasion of either taxi laws or labor laws -- they are (e.g., the Flywheel app.) Not as much visibility, because it doesn't have the dedicated capital and media attention flowing into it from being "disruptive".

vacri 11y ago

Uber and Lyft are operating a model that clearly works for customers. And yet they rightly face legal issues. Well, the same applies to child-labour sweatshops that make shoes...