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This is more like a guide for how to lose all your money, and have your product design stolen, in the minimum amount of time. I have seen too many Kickstarter

This is more like a guide for how to lose all your money, and have your product design stolen, in the minimum amount of time. I have seen too many Kickstarter projects crash and burn because they read guides like this, speed dated some factories, and then lost all their money in a bad production run, by a factory who doesn't really care about them. Unless you work with a factory who you not only trust, but know that they have an extremely strong motivation to not steal your product, they will both screw up your product, and your design will be cloned in a matter of weeks. Even friends I have who are Chinese, living in Hong Kong, have warned me that even for them, it is hard to find trustworthy suppliers and factories in Shenzhen. We are going to be doing all our manufacturing and assembly here in Europe. Luckily we're making a more expensive item and we have this choice. " But if you’re undertaking a serious endeavor and you’re looking to make mission-critical parts, you have to visit to really know the situation at your suppliers, to establish relationships with factory owners and staff, and to get a sense of their quality control standards. " NO NO NO NO NO. Unless you are going to MOVE THERE AND LIVE THERE, then you need to absolutely forget about manufacturing there. You WILL lose. I don't want to sound down on Shenzhen - it is where almost all our beloved electronics come from - but seriously - it is an environmental catastrophe, there is ZERO intellectual property protection, it is full of scam artists, there is a nearly insurmountable language barrier, and yes, there are in fact plenty of completely competent, worthwhile, trustwothy electronics manufacturing assembly companies in nearly every country of the world. Unless you are going truly mass-market (>200,000 pcs) then you should absolutely not even consider taking it to Shenzhen.

andrewmb 11y ago
To provide a somewhat-contrasting anecdote, I've been dealing with Chinese factories (mostly in the Pearl River Delta area) for the last 3 years, manufacturing fairly high-tech products. We haven't had any of the problems you describe. We did our first small manufacturing runs sight-unseen with our initial partners and everything went well. I think the story of cratered Kickstarters has more to do with creators who have little experience in manufacturing and no clue what they're doing in China, rather than some intrinsic failing of Chinese factories. There are plenty of ways to make your BOM work in your home country, but at least in the US it's surprisingly difficult to get low volumes (<5k units) manufactured economically.
- powertower 11y ago
  > manufacturing fairly high-tech products. We haven't had any of the problems you describe. Only because of the nature of your product... It's all about the product type, its price range, and the availability of reaching the customers. A US company that made a general consumer-level (non-pro) 1 milligram scale (e.g., accurate on the weight to within 1-3mg) outsourced its manufacturing to China, which then had the same production lines make 2x the order, placed its own brand/sticker on the additional units, got it into the US, and had the various distributors provide it at a price that was 80% less than the company was selling them. I bought one off Amazon. Why pay $200 when I can pay $20-$40? If this is legal or not it does not matter - if it can be done it will be done. In your case, the time is not just right. But the moment when everything aligns and they think they can compete with you...
  - contingencies 11y ago
    So what do you want, patents?
    - nakedrobot2 11y ago
      Patents won't save you. Trademarks can help you prevent imports like this, but nothing will ever stop your product from being sold in other places, especially mainland china.
      - contingencies 11y ago
        Right, so ... you've just re-iterated my point. Whinging about the nature of reality aint gonna change it.
        nakedrobot2 11y ago
        No, my point is you need to find people who won't steal from you, not because you have patents, but because they're not scumbags. Going to Shenzhen, the odds are very much stacked against you with this.
wumbernang 11y ago
Ah yes. A guy I know designed a simple voltmeter based on a uC and a 3 digit LED display for some radio equipment. Shipped the design out to china. Look on ebay or aliexpress now... Boy is he pissed about that. Interestingly though the product that contained this ended up being built in the UK for only about 20% more. Shafted on import costs of components though.

andrewmb 11y ago

To provide a somewhat-contrasting anecdote, I've been dealing with Chinese factories (mostly in the Pearl River Delta area) for the last 3 years, manufacturing fairly high-tech products. We haven't had any of the problems you describe. We did our first small manufacturing runs sight-unseen with our initial partners and everything went well. I think the story of cratered Kickstarters has more to do with creators who have little experience in manufacturing and no clue what they're doing in China, rather than some intrinsic failing of Chinese factories. There are plenty of ways to make your BOM work in your home country, but at least in the US it's surprisingly difficult to get low volumes (<5k units) manufactured economically.

powertower 11y ago
> manufacturing fairly high-tech products. We haven't had any of the problems you describe. Only because of the nature of your product... It's all about the product type, its price range, and the availability of reaching the customers. A US company that made a general consumer-level (non-pro) 1 milligram scale (e.g., accurate on the weight to within 1-3mg) outsourced its manufacturing to China, which then had the same production lines make 2x the order, placed its own brand/sticker on the additional units, got it into the US, and had the various distributors provide it at a price that was 80% less than the company was selling them. I bought one off Amazon. Why pay $200 when I can pay $20-$40? If this is legal or not it does not matter - if it can be done it will be done. In your case, the time is not just right. But the moment when everything aligns and they think they can compete with you...
- contingencies 11y ago
  So what do you want, patents?
  - nakedrobot2 11y ago
    Patents won't save you. Trademarks can help you prevent imports like this, but nothing will ever stop your product from being sold in other places, especially mainland china.
    - contingencies 11y ago
      Right, so ... you've just re-iterated my point. Whinging about the nature of reality aint gonna change it.
      - nakedrobot2 11y ago
        No, my point is you need to find people who won't steal from you, not because you have patents, but because they're not scumbags. Going to Shenzhen, the odds are very much stacked against you with this.

wumbernang 11y ago

Ah yes. A guy I know designed a simple voltmeter based on a uC and a 3 digit LED display for some radio equipment. Shipped the design out to china. Look on ebay or aliexpress now... Boy is he pissed about that. Interestingly though the product that contained this ended up being built in the UK for only about 20% more. Shafted on import costs of components though.