4 ms·

This was obvious from the beginning. There's really not the slightest doubt that all government authorities are going to classify Uber employees as employees,

This was obvious from the beginning. There's really not the slightest doubt that all government authorities are going to classify Uber employees as employees, except perhaps a few that might be bribed/pressured into not doing so. Uber controls every aspect of the business, from the fares charged (and how much profit Uber will take from each) to the route taken to the conditions of the vehicle to preventing subcontracting. It isn't even close or arguable. As the ruling points out, these people aren't independent drivers with their own businesses that just happen to have engaged in a contract with Uber, nor could Uber's business exist without them. The short version: http://www.irs.gov/uac/Employee-vs.-Independent-Contractor-%E2%80%93-Seven-Tips-for-Business-Owners http://www.irs.gov/uac/Employee-vs.-Independent-Contractor-%...

pbreit 11y ago
I think mostly the opposite. I don't think the ruling holds tightly or sees broad copying. No, Uber does not "control every aspect of the business". Specifically, it doesn't control when you work, where you work, how you work (obviously not the route taken), the conditions of the vehicle (beyond that it is legal), etc.
- s73v3r 11y ago
  They control the important aspects of the business. They control the pricing, they control how the drivers work, they control the condition of the vehicle (can't have an old vehicle, must be newer), and they exert control over when drivers work by punishing those that turn down too many fares.
  - pbreit 11y ago
    The pricing, yes, although Lyft explicitly supports tipping and Sidecar actually enables differentiated pricing. Vehicles can be 10 or mor years old which is the vast majority of vehicles on the road (i.e., hardly "control"). And, yes, lights and seat belts must work (that's hardly control). They exert literally zero control over when you work. If you're going to open up the app and start declining fares, that's equivalent to a contractor turning in shoddy work.
- emodendroket 11y ago
  So if an office position has flex time you're an independent contractor? You're wrong about the vehicle condition part and "how you work" is questionable (you have limits on how many fares you can refuse, for instance).
  - pbreit 11y ago
    Completely different. Uber drivers don't even have to work...ever! Vehicles can be 10 or 15 years old which includes some 90% of all vehicles. That's hardly "controlling condition". And, OK, lights and seat belts have to work. There actually aren't any hard limits on how many fares you can refuse but refusing fares is like a contractor turning in lousy work.
lnanek2 11y ago
Doesn't seem obvious at all to me since I know several drivers who do rides for several systems at the same time. How could they be an employee or three companies at once? They aren't, they are clearly contractors. You can see multiple people stating the same here about driving for multiple services: http://qr.ae/7y7fv7 http://qr.ae/7y7fv7 I think this is just another ruling by a clueless government that has no clue what is actually happening on the computers involved.
- 6d6b73 11y ago
  Many people work for multiple companies, that's nothing new. Computers are just tools not some magical pixie dust.
- cdcarter 11y ago
  Many people work for multiple jobs at once. I've been a receptionist who codes for someone else at the same time, and I've been a crowd manager while doing email for my other job. Both were time sheet W2 employee relationships. This isn't about computers whatsoever. This is about the requirements and business relationship between Uber and Uber drivers. The relationship does not allow Uber drivers to subcontract, negotiate prices, and had control over profit and loss. Uber drivers are employees.
- therobot24 11y ago
  > How could they be an employee or three companies at once? So by your logic i can't be employed as waiter at a restaurant and also be employed as cashier at a grocery store at the same time. Obviously i can't be scheduled for the same shift at both places, but with Uber, Sidecar, Lyft, etc your shift starts once you accept the rider and ends when you drop them off. You clearly aren't going to pick up an Uber rider while you have a Lyft rider in the car. So what's the difference between the waiter/cashier scenario and the Uber/Lyft scenario besides shift length?
- mmarklar 11y ago
  You've never had two jobs at the same time? Thats life for a lot of people
- 11y ago

pbreit 11y ago

I think mostly the opposite. I don't think the ruling holds tightly or sees broad copying. No, Uber does not "control every aspect of the business". Specifically, it doesn't control when you work, where you work, how you work (obviously not the route taken), the conditions of the vehicle (beyond that it is legal), etc.

s73v3r 11y ago
They control the important aspects of the business. They control the pricing, they control how the drivers work, they control the condition of the vehicle (can't have an old vehicle, must be newer), and they exert control over when drivers work by punishing those that turn down too many fares.
- pbreit 11y ago
  The pricing, yes, although Lyft explicitly supports tipping and Sidecar actually enables differentiated pricing. Vehicles can be 10 or mor years old which is the vast majority of vehicles on the road (i.e., hardly "control"). And, yes, lights and seat belts must work (that's hardly control). They exert literally zero control over when you work. If you're going to open up the app and start declining fares, that's equivalent to a contractor turning in shoddy work.
emodendroket 11y ago
So if an office position has flex time you're an independent contractor? You're wrong about the vehicle condition part and "how you work" is questionable (you have limits on how many fares you can refuse, for instance).
- pbreit 11y ago
  Completely different. Uber drivers don't even have to work...ever! Vehicles can be 10 or 15 years old which includes some 90% of all vehicles. That's hardly "controlling condition". And, OK, lights and seat belts have to work. There actually aren't any hard limits on how many fares you can refuse but refusing fares is like a contractor turning in lousy work.

lnanek2 11y ago

Doesn't seem obvious at all to me since I know several drivers who do rides for several systems at the same time. How could they be an employee or three companies at once? They aren't, they are clearly contractors. You can see multiple people stating the same here about driving for multiple services: http://qr.ae/7y7fv7 http://qr.ae/7y7fv7 I think this is just another ruling by a clueless government that has no clue what is actually happening on the computers involved.

6d6b73 11y ago
Many people work for multiple companies, that's nothing new. Computers are just tools not some magical pixie dust.
cdcarter 11y ago
Many people work for multiple jobs at once. I've been a receptionist who codes for someone else at the same time, and I've been a crowd manager while doing email for my other job. Both were time sheet W2 employee relationships. This isn't about computers whatsoever. This is about the requirements and business relationship between Uber and Uber drivers. The relationship does not allow Uber drivers to subcontract, negotiate prices, and had control over profit and loss. Uber drivers are employees.
therobot24 11y ago
> How could they be an employee or three companies at once? So by your logic i can't be employed as waiter at a restaurant and also be employed as cashier at a grocery store at the same time. Obviously i can't be scheduled for the same shift at both places, but with Uber, Sidecar, Lyft, etc your shift starts once you accept the rider and ends when you drop them off. You clearly aren't going to pick up an Uber rider while you have a Lyft rider in the car. So what's the difference between the waiter/cashier scenario and the Uber/Lyft scenario besides shift length?
mmarklar 11y ago
You've never had two jobs at the same time? Thats life for a lot of people
11y ago