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"I'm sharing news about it because this experience has taught me the H-1B Visa program needs to change to protect others in the future." Anyone who still suppo

"I'm sharing news about it because this experience has taught me the H-1B Visa program needs to change to protect others in the future." Anyone who still supports FWD.us and believes that the US doesn't produce enough professionals to satisfy the needs of our businesses is straight up, while they are reading this, actually holding a crack pipe to their mouth.

silverbax88 11y ago
I'm not clear (or arguing the point) about how this is specific to H-1B. Companies routinely lay off older, more expensive workers to get cheaper, younger employees. It's not what companies should do, but they do it all of the time. And then there's this, where apparently Disney cancelled the layoffs: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/us/in-turnabout-disney-cancels-tech-worker-layoffs.html?referrer=&_r=0 http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/us/in-turnabout-disney-... Which I don't see how that's entirely possible given that the article posted by OP specifically states that many employees were already let go in January. I can only speculate that the January layoffs were executed, and over the past week it was discovered that the 'replacement contractors' weren't the cheap magic rocket that Disney expected. That, too, happens in companies all of the time.
- jgoewert 11y ago
  Anyone else read the article with the nagging voice saying: "Oh crap, we got caught trying to really bend the H1B program and have irked our main customer base. We'd better say that we are undoing it then put a policy in place to more slowly drive out everyone making more than minimum wage by using bad reviews and implementing impossible goals. No one will notice if we do it slowly."
  - silverbax88 11y ago
    I saw (or just inferred) damage control. The 'Happiest Place on Earth' can't make headlines for laying people off. I mean, they still will lay people off, but they'll spin it like they are actually creating tons of jobs and everyone is super duper happy about it.
shas3 11y ago
Protectionism doesn't work. There is wide consensus among economists on comparative advantage [1]. Healthy, non-protectionist immigration policies have been proposed to have similar effects as free trade [2,3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage [2] http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf [3] http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443477104577551250082215534 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100008723963904434771045775512...
- melling 11y ago
  How do you determine what's "healthy"? Millions of Americans are caught in an endless cycle of poverty and we're fighting a $15 minimum wage. We've shipped millions of manufacturing jobs to China so it's harder to get a good job without a college education. Now we want to reduce the salaries of well-paid jobs by onshoring them. I'd say we should take a closer look at what we're actually doing.
  - marknutter 11y ago
    Wouldn't raising the minimum was make shipping jobs to China even more attractive?
    - Frondo 11y ago
      No, because you can't ship a Burger King job to China.
      - Shivetya 11y ago
        why is a job flipping burgers worth 30k? by running up the cost of unskilled labor pressure is put upon those who need skilled labor and many of those jobs can go overseas
        Frondo 11y ago
        Why? Because we (as in "we the people") decide it is so? Remember, the government, and all its laws, derives its power from us, not the other way 'round.
shas3 11y ago
Protectionism doesn't work. There is wide consensus among economists on comparative advantage [1]. Healthy, non-protectionist immigration policies have been proposed to have similar effects as free trade [2,3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage [2] http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf [3] http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443477104577551250082215534 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100008723963904434771045775512...
cbsmith 11y ago
....because they could have done this without an H-1B Visa program, and in fact, even in the hospitality service, they probably could move a lot of those jobs flat out overseas. Arguably the H-1B Visa program at least keeps the US labour market somewhat competitive with the overseas markets. No, there are a bunch of problems here, but access to immigrant labour on domestic soil isn't really even near the top of my list.
teacup50 11y ago
The "crack pipe" is in believing that these two situations are equivalent: - Disney replacing IT staff in bulk with outsourced workers. - A small (or large) technology firm wanting to hire a specific, highly qualified, but just happens to be foreign-born worker. The outsourcing companies consume so much of the H1-B pool that the people who want to use it correctly can't, and then people like you start talking about crack pipes.
makeitsuckless 11y ago
I believe the US, or any other Western nation, doesn't produce enough professionals to satisfy the needs of our businesses. (Source: I'm a hiring manager.) I also believe however that this situation is being abused to suppress wages by bringing in underpaid labour in a market that already needs a big upward salary correction to account for the shortage and economic value of these professionals. Abusing and manipulating the problem out of short term self-interest doesn't mean there isn't a problem. In fact it's a very common pattern. See for instance the war on drugs. Denial is not a strategy.

silverbax88 11y ago

I'm not clear (or arguing the point) about how this is specific to H-1B. Companies routinely lay off older, more expensive workers to get cheaper, younger employees. It's not what companies should do, but they do it all of the time. And then there's this, where apparently Disney cancelled the layoffs: http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/us/in-turnabout-disney-cancels-tech-worker-layoffs.html?referrer=&_r=0 http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/06/17/us/in-turnabout-disney-... Which I don't see how that's entirely possible given that the article posted by OP specifically states that many employees were already let go in January. I can only speculate that the January layoffs were executed, and over the past week it was discovered that the 'replacement contractors' weren't the cheap magic rocket that Disney expected. That, too, happens in companies all of the time.

jgoewert 11y ago
Anyone else read the article with the nagging voice saying: "Oh crap, we got caught trying to really bend the H1B program and have irked our main customer base. We'd better say that we are undoing it then put a policy in place to more slowly drive out everyone making more than minimum wage by using bad reviews and implementing impossible goals. No one will notice if we do it slowly."
- silverbax88 11y ago
  I saw (or just inferred) damage control. The 'Happiest Place on Earth' can't make headlines for laying people off. I mean, they still will lay people off, but they'll spin it like they are actually creating tons of jobs and everyone is super duper happy about it.

shas3 11y ago

Protectionism doesn't work. There is wide consensus among economists on comparative advantage [1]. Healthy, non-protectionist immigration policies have been proposed to have similar effects as free trade [2,3]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparative_advantage [2] http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf http://www.economics.uci.edu/files/docs/micro/s07/Peri.pdf [3] http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10000872396390443477104577551250082215534 http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100008723963904434771045775512...

melling 11y ago
How do you determine what's "healthy"? Millions of Americans are caught in an endless cycle of poverty and we're fighting a $15 minimum wage. We've shipped millions of manufacturing jobs to China so it's harder to get a good job without a college education. Now we want to reduce the salaries of well-paid jobs by onshoring them. I'd say we should take a closer look at what we're actually doing.
- marknutter 11y ago
  Wouldn't raising the minimum was make shipping jobs to China even more attractive?
  - Frondo 11y ago
    No, because you can't ship a Burger King job to China.
    - Shivetya 11y ago
      why is a job flipping burgers worth 30k? by running up the cost of unskilled labor pressure is put upon those who need skilled labor and many of those jobs can go overseas
      - Frondo 11y ago
        Why? Because we (as in "we the people") decide it is so? Remember, the government, and all its laws, derives its power from us, not the other way 'round.

shas3 11y ago

cbsmith 11y ago

....because they could have done this without an H-1B Visa program, and in fact, even in the hospitality service, they probably could move a lot of those jobs flat out overseas. Arguably the H-1B Visa program at least keeps the US labour market somewhat competitive with the overseas markets. No, there are a bunch of problems here, but access to immigrant labour on domestic soil isn't really even near the top of my list.

teacup50 11y ago

The "crack pipe" is in believing that these two situations are equivalent: - Disney replacing IT staff in bulk with outsourced workers. - A small (or large) technology firm wanting to hire a specific, highly qualified, but just happens to be foreign-born worker. The outsourcing companies consume so much of the H1-B pool that the people who want to use it correctly can't, and then people like you start talking about crack pipes.

makeitsuckless 11y ago

I believe the US, or any other Western nation, doesn't produce enough professionals to satisfy the needs of our businesses. (Source: I'm a hiring manager.) I also believe however that this situation is being abused to suppress wages by bringing in underpaid labour in a market that already needs a big upward salary correction to account for the shortage and economic value of these professionals. Abusing and manipulating the problem out of short term self-interest doesn't mean there isn't a problem. In fact it's a very common pattern. See for instance the war on drugs. Denial is not a strategy.