7 ms·

Uber cars seized amid crackdown on illegal pickups

35 points by nissimk 11y ago

nissimk 11y ago
Interesting how the trade group is pushing for more regulation of uber: Bhairavi Desai, who reps both yellow cab and Uber drivers for the union. Desai wants the TLC to cap the number of Uber drivers allowed to operate in the city, and require the app to give them a minimum fare requirement, as well as a guaranteed number of trips.
- falcolas 11y ago
  Sounds like Uber needs to start hacking politics a bit more if it wants to continue operating. Trying to skirt the law is working less and less for them.
  - ubernostrum 11y ago
    Well, now they're apparently asking to be treated like taxis, but only when being considered a taxi is an advantage: http://sfist.com/2015/06/12/now_that_taxis_have_a_small_advanta.php http://sfist.com/2015/06/12/now_that_taxis_have_a_small_adva...
  - vtlynch 11y ago
    >hacking politics
- nadams 11y ago
  > as well as a guaranteed number of trips Maybe someone can explain this - Uber or Taxi drivers have no control over the amount of people who request their services.
  - ska 11y ago
    Both Uber and Taxi companies could control the number of drivers operating in an area at any time, which I suspect is the idea. Oversupply could help response times but hurt the bottom line of drivers so there is an unavoidable compromise to be made.
    - srj 11y ago
      Yeah unless you're the person desperate for a ride who can't find a cab. The compromise is absolutely avoidable. Even with today's "oversupply" people are signing up to become uber drivers, so it must be at least somewhat equitable.
      - ska 11y ago
        No the trade off is fundamental. Various addition or removal of constraints on the market will presumably move the equilibrium in the direction of fewer drivers/higher pay or in more drivers/lower pay, but you can't get rid of it, fundamentally (there are other factors, e.g. rate). I have no position on what would be (more) desirable, I was just trying to expand for the parent - you can adjust the supply more easily than the demand, but the interest of the drivers and of the companies are not cleanly aligned.
- maw 11y ago
  Interesting how the trade group is pushing for more regulation of uber: Interesting, yes. But not at all surprising. Google for "bootleggers and baptists".
- caseysoftware 11y ago
  It's the most common pattern of all. Once someone is a provider in a given industry, it's in their best interest to build barriers behind them. This is the pattern with almost any professional licensing board. The established players join/start the board to "protect the public," then establish guidelines - licenses, required training, insurance bonds, etc - to limit people who want to enter the industry, and then grandfather themselves in. Undertakers, florists, carpenters, etc. In some cases, they might be "protecting the public" but they're protecting themselves in the process. Ref: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2015/01/26-time-to-examine-occupational-licensing-practices-kearney-hershbein-boddy http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2015/01/26-tim...
rayiner 11y ago
Note that these seizures are for picking up passengers in response to street hails, not pre-arranged pickups. That is against Uber's own policy as well as the regulations.
- joshstrange 11y ago
  Exactly, from the article: > “Street hails are not permitted on the Uber platform — period,” said the company’s spokesman Matt Wing. “This is a small group of bad actors and the violations add up to less than one hundredth of 1 percent of our rides over the same time period.”
  - comrade1 11y ago
    How would one know that there's an uber car to wave down? Or does the uber driver see someone trying to pick up a taxi and stop?
    - eyeinthepyramid 11y ago
      Taxis in New York (including Ubers) are required to have a special license plate. Also taxis looking for passengers illegally will honk at people who look like they might need a ride.
      - viola11 11y ago
        But isn't ũbers thing is that they are not taxis? Supposedly this has great benefits for Uber and nebulous consequences for their drivers.
        CPLX 11y ago
        There are two main kinds of for-hire cars on NYC streets. Taxis, which are marked with stuff all over them, and "car service" cars which look like any other car, but have license plates that start with the letter T and end with the letter C. This conversation is about the latter kind, cars that don't look like taxis. (yes I am aware that there is now option three with the green cabs but it's not really relevant to this discussion)
rdlecler1 11y ago
A city doesn't cap the number of restaurants. Why should they cap the number of Uber drivers, or taxis for that matter. When the city puts a cap on taxi licenses that means that the license owners get to charge a fee to their drivers so drivers don't get the benefits of less competition just rent seekers.
- shalmanese 11y ago
  Cities do cap the number of restaurants, albeit indirectly. City planning uses zoning and permitting to adjust the density of restaurants in various neighbourhoods and allows and denies liquor licenses and the like to keep noise and traffic to an acceptable level.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- TylerE 11y ago
  Because having supply > demand is bad, resulting in cars idling in the streets, increasing pollution and gridlock.
  - bmmayer1 11y ago
    That makes no sense. Idle cars don't make money and therefore have no incentive to stay in the business for long. The biggest problem with Ubers and taxis right now is that demand for drivers is way, way higher than supply. More Ubers/taxis on the road means less waiting time, more carpooling, less car ownership and less idling, not to mention lower prices.
  - lsllc 11y ago
    Why? it won't last for long ... it'll balance out as drivers realize it's not profitable. Let market forces do their job. It's reasonable for government to regulate safety, but not supply.
    - TylerE 11y ago
      You're assuming it's a binary condition. I think there is a substantial gap between "excessive supply" and "SO much excess supply that the drivers are losing money".
jrockway 11y ago
> “Our officers noted an uptick in illegal activity attributable to licensed for-hire vehicles acting outside their authority,” said agency spokesman Allan Fromberg. “And seizures have a greater deterrent value than summonses alone.” So are they going to seize the yellow cabs driving in the bike lanes now too?

35 points by nissimk 11y ago

Interesting how the trade group is pushing for more regulation of uber: Bhairavi Desai, who reps both yellow cab and Uber drivers for the union. Desai wants the TLC to cap the number of Uber drivers allowed to operate in the city, and require the app to give them a minimum fare requirement, as well as a guaranteed number of trips.

falcolas 11y ago
Sounds like Uber needs to start hacking politics a bit more if it wants to continue operating. Trying to skirt the law is working less and less for them.
- ubernostrum 11y ago
  Well, now they're apparently asking to be treated like taxis, but only when being considered a taxi is an advantage: http://sfist.com/2015/06/12/now_that_taxis_have_a_small_advanta.php http://sfist.com/2015/06/12/now_that_taxis_have_a_small_adva...
- vtlynch 11y ago
  >hacking politics
nadams 11y ago
> as well as a guaranteed number of trips Maybe someone can explain this - Uber or Taxi drivers have no control over the amount of people who request their services.
- ska 11y ago
  Both Uber and Taxi companies could control the number of drivers operating in an area at any time, which I suspect is the idea. Oversupply could help response times but hurt the bottom line of drivers so there is an unavoidable compromise to be made.
  - srj 11y ago
    Yeah unless you're the person desperate for a ride who can't find a cab. The compromise is absolutely avoidable. Even with today's "oversupply" people are signing up to become uber drivers, so it must be at least somewhat equitable.
    - ska 11y ago
      No the trade off is fundamental. Various addition or removal of constraints on the market will presumably move the equilibrium in the direction of fewer drivers/higher pay or in more drivers/lower pay, but you can't get rid of it, fundamentally (there are other factors, e.g. rate). I have no position on what would be (more) desirable, I was just trying to expand for the parent - you can adjust the supply more easily than the demand, but the interest of the drivers and of the companies are not cleanly aligned.
maw 11y ago
Interesting how the trade group is pushing for more regulation of uber: Interesting, yes. But not at all surprising. Google for "bootleggers and baptists".
caseysoftware 11y ago
It's the most common pattern of all. Once someone is a provider in a given industry, it's in their best interest to build barriers behind them. This is the pattern with almost any professional licensing board. The established players join/start the board to "protect the public," then establish guidelines - licenses, required training, insurance bonds, etc - to limit people who want to enter the industry, and then grandfather themselves in. Undertakers, florists, carpenters, etc. In some cases, they might be "protecting the public" but they're protecting themselves in the process. Ref: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2015/01/26-time-to-examine-occupational-licensing-practices-kearney-hershbein-boddy http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2015/01/26-tim...

rayiner 11y ago

Note that these seizures are for picking up passengers in response to street hails, not pre-arranged pickups. That is against Uber's own policy as well as the regulations.

joshstrange 11y ago
Exactly, from the article: > “Street hails are not permitted on the Uber platform — period,” said the company’s spokesman Matt Wing. “This is a small group of bad actors and the violations add up to less than one hundredth of 1 percent of our rides over the same time period.”
- comrade1 11y ago
  How would one know that there's an uber car to wave down? Or does the uber driver see someone trying to pick up a taxi and stop?
  - eyeinthepyramid 11y ago
    Taxis in New York (including Ubers) are required to have a special license plate. Also taxis looking for passengers illegally will honk at people who look like they might need a ride.
    - viola11 11y ago
      But isn't ũbers thing is that they are not taxis? Supposedly this has great benefits for Uber and nebulous consequences for their drivers.
      - CPLX 11y ago
        There are two main kinds of for-hire cars on NYC streets. Taxis, which are marked with stuff all over them, and "car service" cars which look like any other car, but have license plates that start with the letter T and end with the letter C. This conversation is about the latter kind, cars that don't look like taxis. (yes I am aware that there is now option three with the green cabs but it's not really relevant to this discussion)

rdlecler1 11y ago

A city doesn't cap the number of restaurants. Why should they cap the number of Uber drivers, or taxis for that matter. When the city puts a cap on taxi licenses that means that the license owners get to charge a fee to their drivers so drivers don't get the benefits of less competition just rent seekers.

shalmanese 11y ago
Cities do cap the number of restaurants, albeit indirectly. City planning uses zoning and permitting to adjust the density of restaurants in various neighbourhoods and allows and denies liquor licenses and the like to keep noise and traffic to an acceptable level.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
TylerE 11y ago
Because having supply > demand is bad, resulting in cars idling in the streets, increasing pollution and gridlock.
- bmmayer1 11y ago
  That makes no sense. Idle cars don't make money and therefore have no incentive to stay in the business for long. The biggest problem with Ubers and taxis right now is that demand for drivers is way, way higher than supply. More Ubers/taxis on the road means less waiting time, more carpooling, less car ownership and less idling, not to mention lower prices.
- lsllc 11y ago
  Why? it won't last for long ... it'll balance out as drivers realize it's not profitable. Let market forces do their job. It's reasonable for government to regulate safety, but not supply.
  - TylerE 11y ago
    You're assuming it's a binary condition. I think there is a substantial gap between "excessive supply" and "SO much excess supply that the drivers are losing money".

jrockway 11y ago

> “Our officers noted an uptick in illegal activity attributable to licensed for-hire vehicles acting outside their authority,” said agency spokesman Allan Fromberg. “And seizures have a greater deterrent value than summonses alone.” So are they going to seize the yellow cabs driving in the bike lanes now too?