5 ms·

A good while yet, I'd expect; a lot depends on Windows 10 uptake. The browser-formerly-known-as-IE is currently running ahead of Chrome and FF on ES6 implementa

by tragic 11y ago

A good while yet, I'd expect; a lot depends on Windows 10 uptake. The browser-formerly-known-as-IE is currently running ahead of Chrome and FF on ES6 implementation, but if everyone sticks with Win7 for the next half decade it won't amount to much. But seriously: use Babel.

VeejayRampay 11y ago
Oh absolutely Babel is awesome, just wondering.
cabirum 11y ago
That's why MS gives out Win10 for free: there are zero reasons to stick with 7.
- gmac 11y ago
  Here are two big reasons: (1) The IT department controls what's on your PC. (2) You have no idea how computers work.
  - monk_e_boy 11y ago
    Yep, there are a lot of strange peripherals attached to computers that are no longer supported. Win XP and 7 will be around for a while yet. Out local hospital is still using IE7 - that's a lot of PCs that aren't going to get upgraded any time soon (funding cuts.)
    - Klathmon 11y ago
      It was my understanding that it wasn't that those things weren't "not supported" but that the drivers will no longer be included with the base install. Stuff like off-the-wall scsi drivers, or floppy drivers, or serial port mouse support. You can still download and install the drivers for those things, but they won't be there right away.
      - RussianCow 11y ago
        I don't know about Windows 10, but the driver model changed significantly with Windows Vista, so XP drivers actually will not work out of the box on newer versions of Windows. So if you're using a really old peripheral that isn't maintained anymore, chances are you won't be able to run it on a modern Windows machine.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        artmageddon 11y ago
        I'm curious, assuming physical connections are still possible(i.e. ye olde COM/Serial port), how well do the use of VMs hold up in mission-critical processes such as these?
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- paulojreis 11y ago
  Yeah, for geeks, maybe. But, for common people, the reasoning is the opposite: there are zero reasons to switch.
  - cabirum 11y ago
    I think most people saw the annoying little flag in the notification area letting users to "reserve" the upgrade, so here's your reason: it won't go away until you do upgrade.
    - paulojreis 11y ago
      Again, that would apply to the geek user: he would upgrade just to get rid of the annoyance. Common people typically handle annoying things in the "computer" realm: browser toolbars, pop-ups, advertising, crapware, malware. Yet, they don't upgrade because it seems "complicated", it's "technical", or something like that. We, IT professionals as a class, have a hell of a lot to gain just by talking and watching common users.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        There are not that many THAT "common people" anymore with regards to technology. And even them buy a new computer ever 5 or so years or have someone who knows take care of their installations.
        paulojreis 11y ago
        > There are not that many THAT "common people" anymore with regards to technology In HN? Surely. In our little and self-centered IT shell? Mos' def'. If you worked with and studied users, your opinion would change. Updates in particular are interesting; most people postpone them ad aeternum.
    - Silhouette 11y ago
      it won't go away until you do upgrade. Sure it will. Just uninstall the Windows update KB3035583, and there it is, gone. This is by far the most common question my less technical friends and family have been asking about their computers recently. I must have done this for 4 or 5 different people already, and entirely unscientifically it seems other technically inclined friends are getting the same request. It appears that I don't know a lot of people who actually want a new version of Windows on their existing, already working PC. Personally, I've been recommending ignoring any Windows updates that are not explicitly security updates for quite some time now. Microsoft seem to have developed an unwelcome habit of pushing things out via that mechanism that might be in their own interests but aren't necessarily in the interests of the users.
- DasIch 11y ago
  In the real world organizations are still stuck on Windows XP and especially in large organizations it can take months or even years until everyone is upgraded. Windows 10 being free matters to users at home and small businesses, it doesn't matter to anyone else.
- untog 11y ago
  As a Windows Media Center user, I beg to differ.
Touche 11y ago
> But seriously: use Babel. Ugh, I find this to be excruciating. So you read about some new cool technology on HTML5Rocks and you want to play around with it. You have to: * npm init * npm install babel --save * npm install browserify/webpack/greatest-thing-ever-of-the-week --save * npm install gulp/grunt/broccoli/other-task-runner --save * vi (gulp/grunt/broc/other)file.js * Write some code to build your application. * vi myapp.js (write some code to do your thing) * > (gulp/grunt/broc) build * Write an html file that includes your bundled es5. * Open it in the browser. Yay! Cool I can debug now... wait a second I made a mistake. * vi myapp.js and fix mistake. * > (gulp/grunt/broc) build * Oops I made another mistake. Better set up a watch-mode so I don't have to keep running build. * npm install some-watch-thing --save * vi (gulp/grunt/broc/other)file.js * Add your watch code * > (gulp/grunt/broc) watch * Yay I can finally just fucking code now.
- ajacksified 11y ago
  So, one more step than normal if you want to use npm dependencies in the browser, which is what you described. If you're just playing with code, here's a simpler workflow: * npm install babel * write file.js * run `babel-node file.js` Similar to your example, the only extra step here is installing babel. If it's excruciating, install it globally and save yourself forever.
  - untog 11y ago
    Even better, just npm install -g babel once on any machine you use. Then it's ready for any and every .js file.
    - cholantesh 11y ago
      Ours is a .NET shop and we don't have plans to update to VS2015 in the near future. Does this workflow suggest that, in order to take advantage of Babel, we will have to install npm on all our dev machines and servers?
      - Touche 11y ago
M2Ys4U 11y ago
>The browser-formerly-known-as-IE is currently running ahead of Chrome and FF on ES6 implementation Not according to Kangax's table.[0] Both Fx 39 and 40 beat out Edge, with 65%, 66% and 63% respectively. [0] https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/ https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/
lewisl9029 11y ago
Or better yet, use jspm with Babel and use ES6 modules for everything. https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli https://github.com/systemjs/systemjs https://github.com/systemjs/systemjs
- zghst 11y ago
  What's the benefit of jspm vs webpack (which is incredibly powerful, but sloppy IMHO right now).
  - lewisl9029 11y ago
    I honestly haven't used webpack much myself, but I found these two threads on the topic: https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/335 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/335 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/844 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/844 According to those, SystemJS (jspm's module loader) has the following advantages: - Able to load any type of module as any other type of module (global, CommonJS, AMD, ES6) - Can handle transpilation and module loading at runtime without requiring a manual build step However, jspm itself is primarily a package manager. Its main advantages over existing package management solutions are: - The tight integration with the SystemJS module loader for ES6 usage - The fact that it maintains a flat dependency hierarchy with deduplication - The ability to override package.json configuration for any dependency - Allows loading of packages from just about any source (local git repos, Github, NPM) as any module format

by tragic 11y ago

VeejayRampay 11y ago

Oh absolutely Babel is awesome, just wondering.

cabirum 11y ago

That's why MS gives out Win10 for free: there are zero reasons to stick with 7.

gmac 11y ago
Here are two big reasons: (1) The IT department controls what's on your PC. (2) You have no idea how computers work.
- monk_e_boy 11y ago
  Yep, there are a lot of strange peripherals attached to computers that are no longer supported. Win XP and 7 will be around for a while yet. Out local hospital is still using IE7 - that's a lot of PCs that aren't going to get upgraded any time soon (funding cuts.)
  - Klathmon 11y ago
    It was my understanding that it wasn't that those things weren't "not supported" but that the drivers will no longer be included with the base install. Stuff like off-the-wall scsi drivers, or floppy drivers, or serial port mouse support. You can still download and install the drivers for those things, but they won't be there right away.
    - RussianCow 11y ago
      I don't know about Windows 10, but the driver model changed significantly with Windows Vista, so XP drivers actually will not work out of the box on newer versions of Windows. So if you're using a really old peripheral that isn't maintained anymore, chances are you won't be able to run it on a modern Windows machine.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - artmageddon 11y ago
        I'm curious, assuming physical connections are still possible(i.e. ye olde COM/Serial port), how well do the use of VMs hold up in mission-critical processes such as these?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
paulojreis 11y ago
Yeah, for geeks, maybe. But, for common people, the reasoning is the opposite: there are zero reasons to switch.
- cabirum 11y ago
  I think most people saw the annoying little flag in the notification area letting users to "reserve" the upgrade, so here's your reason: it won't go away until you do upgrade.
  - paulojreis 11y ago
    Again, that would apply to the geek user: he would upgrade just to get rid of the annoyance. Common people typically handle annoying things in the "computer" realm: browser toolbars, pop-ups, advertising, crapware, malware. Yet, they don't upgrade because it seems "complicated", it's "technical", or something like that. We, IT professionals as a class, have a hell of a lot to gain just by talking and watching common users.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      There are not that many THAT "common people" anymore with regards to technology. And even them buy a new computer ever 5 or so years or have someone who knows take care of their installations.
      - paulojreis 11y ago
        > There are not that many THAT "common people" anymore with regards to technology In HN? Surely. In our little and self-centered IT shell? Mos' def'. If you worked with and studied users, your opinion would change. Updates in particular are interesting; most people postpone them ad aeternum.
  - Silhouette 11y ago
    it won't go away until you do upgrade. Sure it will. Just uninstall the Windows update KB3035583, and there it is, gone. This is by far the most common question my less technical friends and family have been asking about their computers recently. I must have done this for 4 or 5 different people already, and entirely unscientifically it seems other technically inclined friends are getting the same request. It appears that I don't know a lot of people who actually want a new version of Windows on their existing, already working PC. Personally, I've been recommending ignoring any Windows updates that are not explicitly security updates for quite some time now. Microsoft seem to have developed an unwelcome habit of pushing things out via that mechanism that might be in their own interests but aren't necessarily in the interests of the users.
DasIch 11y ago
In the real world organizations are still stuck on Windows XP and especially in large organizations it can take months or even years until everyone is upgraded. Windows 10 being free matters to users at home and small businesses, it doesn't matter to anyone else.
untog 11y ago
As a Windows Media Center user, I beg to differ.

Touche 11y ago

> But seriously: use Babel. Ugh, I find this to be excruciating. So you read about some new cool technology on HTML5Rocks and you want to play around with it. You have to: * npm init * npm install babel --save * npm install browserify/webpack/greatest-thing-ever-of-the-week --save * npm install gulp/grunt/broccoli/other-task-runner --save * vi (gulp/grunt/broc/other)file.js * Write some code to build your application. * vi myapp.js (write some code to do your thing) * > (gulp/grunt/broc) build * Write an html file that includes your bundled es5. * Open it in the browser. Yay! Cool I can debug now... wait a second I made a mistake. * vi myapp.js and fix mistake. * > (gulp/grunt/broc) build * Oops I made another mistake. Better set up a watch-mode so I don't have to keep running build. * npm install some-watch-thing --save * vi (gulp/grunt/broc/other)file.js * Add your watch code * > (gulp/grunt/broc) watch * Yay I can finally just fucking code now.

ajacksified 11y ago
So, one more step than normal if you want to use npm dependencies in the browser, which is what you described. If you're just playing with code, here's a simpler workflow: * npm install babel * write file.js * run `babel-node file.js` Similar to your example, the only extra step here is installing babel. If it's excruciating, install it globally and save yourself forever.
- untog 11y ago
  Even better, just npm install -g babel once on any machine you use. Then it's ready for any and every .js file.
  - cholantesh 11y ago
    Ours is a .NET shop and we don't have plans to update to VS2015 in the near future. Does this workflow suggest that, in order to take advantage of Babel, we will have to install npm on all our dev machines and servers?
    - Touche 11y ago

M2Ys4U 11y ago

>The browser-formerly-known-as-IE is currently running ahead of Chrome and FF on ES6 implementation Not according to Kangax's table.[0] Both Fx 39 and 40 beat out Edge, with 65%, 66% and 63% respectively. [0] https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/ https://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es6/

lewisl9029 11y ago

Or better yet, use jspm with Babel and use ES6 modules for everything. https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli https://github.com/systemjs/systemjs https://github.com/systemjs/systemjs

zghst 11y ago
What's the benefit of jspm vs webpack (which is incredibly powerful, but sloppy IMHO right now).
- lewisl9029 11y ago
  I honestly haven't used webpack much myself, but I found these two threads on the topic: https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/335 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/335 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/844 https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/issues/844 According to those, SystemJS (jspm's module loader) has the following advantages: - Able to load any type of module as any other type of module (global, CommonJS, AMD, ES6) - Can handle transpilation and module loading at runtime without requiring a manual build step However, jspm itself is primarily a package manager. Its main advantages over existing package management solutions are: - The tight integration with the SystemJS module loader for ES6 usage - The fact that it maintains a flat dependency hierarchy with deduplication - The ability to override package.json configuration for any dependency - Allows loading of packages from just about any source (local git repos, Github, NPM) as any module format