7 ms·

The German "decade flip" is restricted to the tens and unit places; otherwise the order is English-like, with larger terms leading. The cardinal number systems

The German "decade flip" is restricted to the tens and unit places; otherwise the order is English-like, with larger terms leading. The cardinal number systems for most major languages lead with larger terms (as in English). I don't think there's anything deep about this, it's probably an accident. And there are languages which lead with smaller terms, such as Malagasy (the national language of Madagascar). The ordering of digits in Arabic is not obviously relevant, per se, since spoken English ("one hundred twenty one") matches the order of the Arabic numbers, too.

ahomescu1 11y ago
> The ordering of digits in Arabic is not obviously relevant, per se, since spoken English ("one hundred twenty one") matches the order of the Arabic numbers, too. I think it is relevant. It is possible that Western mathematics copied the Arabic notation (with right-to-left numbers), without also copying the correct way to read it (also right-to-left). For a similar situation in language, think of accents and the many different ways you can pronounce the same word.
- kylebgorman 11y ago
  Unlikely. Cardinal numbers in Old English, long before the slightest chance of contact with Arabs, were virtually identical to the modern system with respect to order of terms. "For a similar situation in language, think of accents and the many different ways you can pronounce the same word." Could you be more specific as to what you mean?
  - ahomescu1 11y ago
    I mean the writing is identical, but the pronounciation varies wildly.
DonHopkins 11y ago
It's funny how the Germans and Dutch (rightfully) ridicule Americans for writing dates in middle-endian order like 9/11/2001, yet they say numbers with the decade flip "two and forty". That's just as ridiculous.
- cactusface 11y ago
  MM/DD/YYYY is simply a direct transliteration of spoken English, which makes it easy to read and write dates. In other languages, the spoken version is little endian or big endian, and the written version aligns accordingly. (At least for the languages I know.)
  - rjsw 11y ago
    ITYM "... spoken American".
    - cactusface 11y ago
      Are you saying it is commonly referred to as "The 11th of September, 2001" in England?
      - maffydub 11y ago
        As a British English speaker, I'd say "yes". Technically, I'd drop the "th of" and just say/write "11 September 2001".
        cactusface 11y ago
        Interesting. Would you choose "three July twenty fifteen", "July third twenty fifteen", or "the third of July twenty fifteen" (substitute "two thousand" for "twenty" if you like)? Assume someone has asked you the date and you're responding out loud.
        maffydub 11y ago
        I would say "three July twenty fifteen". It took me a while to figure this out because actually it's quite rare to speak a date including a year without reading it - most spontaneously-spoken dates are this year (so the year is implied) and for a read dates, I'd probably say whatever was written. The clincher was how I'd say my birth date, which would be of the form above. I'm not claiming to be the definitive British English speaker, though! ;) ...and as another poster commented, it might depend on context - for example, "September 11" is often used in British English because it refers to an American event.

ahomescu1 11y ago

> The ordering of digits in Arabic is not obviously relevant, per se, since spoken English ("one hundred twenty one") matches the order of the Arabic numbers, too. I think it is relevant. It is possible that Western mathematics copied the Arabic notation (with right-to-left numbers), without also copying the correct way to read it (also right-to-left). For a similar situation in language, think of accents and the many different ways you can pronounce the same word.

kylebgorman 11y ago
Unlikely. Cardinal numbers in Old English, long before the slightest chance of contact with Arabs, were virtually identical to the modern system with respect to order of terms. "For a similar situation in language, think of accents and the many different ways you can pronounce the same word." Could you be more specific as to what you mean?
- ahomescu1 11y ago
  I mean the writing is identical, but the pronounciation varies wildly.

DonHopkins 11y ago

It's funny how the Germans and Dutch (rightfully) ridicule Americans for writing dates in middle-endian order like 9/11/2001, yet they say numbers with the decade flip "two and forty". That's just as ridiculous.

cactusface 11y ago
MM/DD/YYYY is simply a direct transliteration of spoken English, which makes it easy to read and write dates. In other languages, the spoken version is little endian or big endian, and the written version aligns accordingly. (At least for the languages I know.)
- rjsw 11y ago
  ITYM "... spoken American".
  - cactusface 11y ago
    Are you saying it is commonly referred to as "The 11th of September, 2001" in England?
    - maffydub 11y ago
      As a British English speaker, I'd say "yes". Technically, I'd drop the "th of" and just say/write "11 September 2001".
      - cactusface 11y ago
        Interesting. Would you choose "three July twenty fifteen", "July third twenty fifteen", or "the third of July twenty fifteen" (substitute "two thousand" for "twenty" if you like)? Assume someone has asked you the date and you're responding out loud.
        maffydub 11y ago
        I would say "three July twenty fifteen". It took me a while to figure this out because actually it's quite rare to speak a date including a year without reading it - most spontaneously-spoken dates are this year (so the year is implied) and for a read dates, I'd probably say whatever was written. The clincher was how I'd say my birth date, which would be of the form above. I'm not claiming to be the definitive British English speaker, though! ;) ...and as another poster commented, it might depend on context - for example, "September 11" is often used in British English because it refers to an American event.