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> While crucial, an open governance model by itself does not guarantee long-term success. We’ll need to balance the needs of the strong developer community with

by r0naa 11y ago

> While crucial, an open governance model by itself does not guarantee long-term success. We’ll need to balance the needs of the strong developer community with those of the users Correct me if I am wrong but aren't "developers" the very users of Node.js? > and encourage a vibrant ecosystem of technology and service providers to ensure the bright future we all envision. He speaks about the "goal" without detailing the strategy. In short, he throws platitudes at the readers without effectively bringing anything interesting. I understand that this is a PR but a couple lines would have been welcomed. You know, to ensure that we can envision "this bright future"!

rgbrenner 11y ago
Correct me if I am wrong but aren't "developers" the very users of Node.js? No. There are developers of nodejs. And then there are users of nodejs that use it to build other things.
- r0naa 11y ago
  Thank you for clarifying this, it is the following excerpt that confused me since Scott Hammond referred to "users of Node.js" as "developers". > I was well aware of Node.js’ developer popularity and success — mainly because those who use and love Node.js also love to talk about it I have a hard time imagining how different are the needs of the "strong developer community" and "node.js users". If anything they seem completely aligned. Node.js (and io.js) has done an amazing job taking into account community feedback. I fail to see how more transparency, openness and empowerment for the developers "unbalance" the needs of both groups. The only "loser" in this whole open-governance thing seems to be Joyent. In short, my feeling is that sentence could be reformulated as follow: "While crucial, an open governance model by itself does not guarantee long-term success. We’ll need to balance the needs of the strong developer community with those of our shareholders" Maybe I am a bit too cynical or harsh, please let me know if you disagree with me.
  - rgbrenner 11y ago
    I agree with everything you wrote. However, users and developers of nodejs do have slightly different interests. I think Golang is a good example of this... the developers (mostly Google) want Golang to be small, less complex, etc (at the very least, it makes their job easier if they don't have to support certain features). But the users want generics, exceptions, and assertions (among other things). So there's this difference in point of view -- the developers have a certain vision of what Golang should be.. and the users just want to get their project (that happens to be implemented in Go) finished as quickly/efficiently as possible.
jsnk 11y ago
I think developers are users for sure, but not all users are developers. There's also a large corporate wing of users for node. Huge companies like Walmart and Netflix who are invested in the technology and want to see Node.js develop in a certain way to their advantage. At the end of the day, there's money to be made in the technology somehow. And this isn't to say it's a bad thing at all. Stakeholders of node.js isn't just developers at this point.
- r0naa 11y ago
  Good point. > At the end of the day, there's money to be made in the technology somehow. But reading Scott Hammond's PR again I have the impression that he oppose the open-governance model to Enterprise users' needs. I might be operating under the wrong set of assumptions but to me, an open-governance model is the best way to make the smartest decisions possible for the language's future and accommodates everyone needs as much as possible. Slightly off-topic but Eran Hammer's post describe some of the conflicts between Enterprise needs and the Web world's in the context of OAuth 2.0 : http://hueniverse.com/2012/07/26/oauth-2-0-and-the-road-to-hell/ http://hueniverse.com/2012/07/26/oauth-2-0-and-the-road-to-h...

by r0naa 11y ago

rgbrenner 11y ago

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't "developers" the very users of Node.js? No. There are developers of nodejs. And then there are users of nodejs that use it to build other things.

r0naa 11y ago
Thank you for clarifying this, it is the following excerpt that confused me since Scott Hammond referred to "users of Node.js" as "developers". > I was well aware of Node.js’ developer popularity and success — mainly because those who use and love Node.js also love to talk about it I have a hard time imagining how different are the needs of the "strong developer community" and "node.js users". If anything they seem completely aligned. Node.js (and io.js) has done an amazing job taking into account community feedback. I fail to see how more transparency, openness and empowerment for the developers "unbalance" the needs of both groups. The only "loser" in this whole open-governance thing seems to be Joyent. In short, my feeling is that sentence could be reformulated as follow: "While crucial, an open governance model by itself does not guarantee long-term success. We’ll need to balance the needs of the strong developer community with those of our shareholders" Maybe I am a bit too cynical or harsh, please let me know if you disagree with me.
- rgbrenner 11y ago
  I agree with everything you wrote. However, users and developers of nodejs do have slightly different interests. I think Golang is a good example of this... the developers (mostly Google) want Golang to be small, less complex, etc (at the very least, it makes their job easier if they don't have to support certain features). But the users want generics, exceptions, and assertions (among other things). So there's this difference in point of view -- the developers have a certain vision of what Golang should be.. and the users just want to get their project (that happens to be implemented in Go) finished as quickly/efficiently as possible.

jsnk 11y ago

I think developers are users for sure, but not all users are developers. There's also a large corporate wing of users for node. Huge companies like Walmart and Netflix who are invested in the technology and want to see Node.js develop in a certain way to their advantage. At the end of the day, there's money to be made in the technology somehow. And this isn't to say it's a bad thing at all. Stakeholders of node.js isn't just developers at this point.

r0naa 11y ago
Good point. > At the end of the day, there's money to be made in the technology somehow. But reading Scott Hammond's PR again I have the impression that he oppose the open-governance model to Enterprise users' needs. I might be operating under the wrong set of assumptions but to me, an open-governance model is the best way to make the smartest decisions possible for the language's future and accommodates everyone needs as much as possible. Slightly off-topic but Eran Hammer's post describe some of the conflicts between Enterprise needs and the Web world's in the context of OAuth 2.0 : http://hueniverse.com/2012/07/26/oauth-2-0-and-the-road-to-hell/ http://hueniverse.com/2012/07/26/oauth-2-0-and-the-road-to-h...